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Posts:
152
Registered:
12/16/03
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(16 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 22, 2009 10:33 AM
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Nothing if you are a generalissimo. Franco persisted with the wholesale murder of his defeated civil-war enemies all through the second world war, and indeed afterwards. He sustained his tyranny until dying in his bed in 1975.
Summit: The meeting hat Shaped the Twentieth Century and the future history of the World
Hitler contended that the summit meeting with Franco was the key element of his foreign policy that shaped the military landscape of the war, the politics of the last century, and the fate of the future of the world.
GeneralissimoFranco, the “murderous little Christian gentleman” as H.G. Wells called him, developed his links with the Third Reich during the Spanish Civil War. Without Hitler’s help of the Condor Legion, Franco’s insurrection would have failed. Though Franco owed everything to Hitler for his help, Franco did not obey Hitler’s orders of taking Gibraltar, necessary to seal the Mediterranean from England or any of her allies. Franco declared himself ‘non-belligerent.’ Never in his life, has anybody told “no” in Hitler’s face. It was the most important word ever uttered in the history of humanity considering the moment and the stakes involved in the history of the world that followed. Franco was clever enough not to enter the war and this astuteness shocked Hitler and saved his life, that day, since Hitler did not recovered from the blow. Franco recalled the days a century earlier when Napoleon, like Hitler, had conquered Europe but suffered an ulcer when he invaded Spain, and did not wish such ailment on his friend and fellow fascist.
Relations between Franco and Hitler were a clash of titanic egos. They met only once, on October 23, 1940. The Spaniard arrived late because his train was delayed on purpose to show the Germans that an invasion of Spain would be very difficult without roads and trains, and not as a deliberate slight to Hitler. He indulged in long-winded talk and put forward a lot of conditions for joining the war, asking mainly for new colonies in Africa. Hitler liked to monopolize conversations and found Franco surprisingly loquacious who insisted on speaking about how Spain had licked Napoleon a century earlier.
The Fuhrer was bored with Franco's long discourses on Morocco’s importance for Spain and personal anecdotes of a military campaign there. Hitler flew into a rage after the meeting. Later he termed Franco a “Latin charlatan” and cried. One of his aids inquired Hitler why was he crying and Hitler answered that after Franco’s negative he felt so much pain as if Franco had taken all of his teeth without anesthesia.
That Spain did not join in was disastrous for Germany. England and the US were able to launch a rear attack to Rommel’s forces which had conquered Africa. Spain provided real help to the Allied forces, from building observation posts in Gibraltar, collecting information and passing them on to their forces in the Mediterranean. Britain and the US owed trillions of dollars to Franco for winning the war, but he never accepted a penny from the inglos.
Franco’s regime also had a more friendly attitude, than the Americans have had prior to the war, towards the Jewish refugees of the Holocaust and let millions from all over Europe come to Spain without passports or documentation. From there some went to Palestine to create the state of Israel.
Though the USA was harshly critical of Franco during and after the war, it embraced him as an ally against Communism and, the USA profited once more from a tide of history sweeping past Spanish coasts, as once before had profited during the Spanish American War and established a world empire from Puerto Rico to the Philippines.
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Posts:
5,015
From:
Seattle Area
Registered:
5/6/03
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(17 of 26)
Jun 22, 2009 11:57 AM
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Gen. Lewis Brereton is probably an example of the "old guard" protecting it's own. He was a graduate of the Naval Acadamy who as early as 1911 was one of the founding officers in the Signal Corps' aviation section, and one of the most high-ranking American avaiation officers for some time during WWI and the years between the world wars.
Rumored to be a bit of a lush, his performance at the Philipines wasn't impressive. Sure, it was bad luck to have the Far East Air Force mostly caught on the ground at Clark Field (they were being re-fueled after being in the air much of the morning), but there was evidence of considerable lack of pre-war preperation and training which led to that disaster. Brereton blamed Sullivan for getting between him and MacArthur in getting authorization for a strike against Formosa, but those sorts of decisions should have been ironed out weeks earlier, not waiting for the Japanese to start the clock running before deciding how to proceed.
Despite losing most of his air force in the Philipines, Brereton briefly headed a combined command which was abandoned after the loss of Java, and then transferred to the China-Burma-Inda theatre where he was charged with organizing the 10th Air Force. In June 1942, however, he was sent to Palastine to organize the 9th Air Force for operations in the Middle East. It was Brereton who was in charge during the raid on the Romanian airfields at Ploesti which resulted in considerable loss of B-24s (50%?).
Once operations ended in the Middle East Brereton remained in charge of the 9th air force, which at first became a mere organization skeleton as it's bomber squadrons were transferred for operations in Italy (12th and 15th Air forces). The headquarters was then moved to Britain, where Brereton remained as the 9th Air Force was changed to a tactical air force in October 1943. He was promoted to Lt. Gen. in April 1944 .
In June 1944, ten days after D-Day, Brereton was informed that in effective August 1944, he would be placed in command of the First Allied Airborne Army, where he remained through the end of the war. In a way his career came full-circle at this point - shortly before WWI ended, he had proposed that aircraft be used to drop American units on the city of Metz, but Pershing had rejected the plan.
As commander of the 1st Airborne Army, Brereton was itching to find a use for his airborne troops. Several projects were planned but cancelled as the Allied ground advance overran planned drop zones days or weeks before the operation could take place. Before the war ended, the 1st Airborne Army participated in three actual operations: Market-Garden (known commonly now as "A Bridge Too Far"), the Battle of the Bulge (airborne units acting as ground troops), and Operation Varsity (Monty's jump over the northern Rhine).
Between the end of WWII and his retirement in 1948, Brereton was the U.S. military liason with the Atomic Energy Commission.
What is unkown is how his contemporaries thought of him. Eisenhower had personally selected him to command the 1st Airborne Army, so it could be that he was responding to the simmering spat between Brereton and the MacArthur/Sullivan cabal (Eisenhower had served under MacArthur, and didn't think much of him). But it also seems that there was an attempt to promote him "upstairs" out of operational control and into planning/administrative command, which might have been more to his skill-set - assuming someone could keep an eye on his drinking habits.
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Posts:
5,015
From:
Seattle Area
Registered:
5/6/03
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(18 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 22, 2009 12:45 PM
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"...He sustained his tyranny until dying in his bed in 1975..."
Those of us of a "certain generation" will always remember comedian Chevy Chase and his "newscast" on Saturday Night Live, which for months would start with: "....and the lead story is: "Generalissimo Franko is ........ still alive".
This was in counterpoint to the "deathbed watch" of the news media. Most of the anchorman and senior news editors of the time had cut their teeth reporting during the Spanish Civil War and seemed to anxiously be awaiting Franco's demise at any hour - for months on end.
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Posts:
2,608
Registered:
7/24/06
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(19 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 22, 2009 6:54 PM
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it was practiced by the Soviets.
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Posts:
19,143
Registered:
1/13/03
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(20 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 22, 2009 7:57 PM
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Too bad someone didn't "pull the trigger" on Marshall. He was promoted over many more senior officers because he caught FDR's eye when he supervised CCC workers. When it came time to warn Pearl Harbor he hesitated until it was too late.
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Posts:
2,123
Registered:
7/2/07
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(21 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 23, 2009 2:47 PM
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America should be very fortunate that we had a visionary like Marshall in charge during WWII, he had his "Marshall Plan" in mind as early as 1943, can't say the same for the Bush administration about their post Iraq invasion plans, which were non existant.
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Posts:
3,450
Registered:
11/16/04
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(22 of 26)
Re: Major General John Shirley Wood
Jun 23, 2009 8:27 PM
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> Commander of the 4th Armored Division, a personal
> friend and tutor of George Patton. During the
> Lorraine Campaign, Patton felt it necessary to
> relieve his old friend, who was physically exhausted
> and no longer able to perform as he had. Wood
> returned to the US on sick leave and never returned
> to combat. Even commanders get battle-weary.
Accordingto Roman Jarymowycz, author of Tank Tactics, he was sent packing because he questioned the tactical decisions of his superiors. Jarymowycz points out that Wood clearly knew how to use armor, more than he had to say about Patton.
Perhaps the "exhaustion" excuse was conjured up to allow him to continue his career without a black mark inhis jacket.
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Posts:
4
Registered:
6/28/09
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(23 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 28, 2009 7:39 PM
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Hitler and Stalin both were very picky about the generals they had. Stalin had already killed many of his generals because he didn't trust them. Hitler wanted a general who was a deticated Nazi and would do what every he said. Both men threw away men they could have used later in the war.
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Posts:
323
From:
U.S.A. Ohio
Registered:
11/23/01
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(24 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 30, 2009 5:44 AM
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Major General Allen commanded the U.S. 1st Infantry Division in North Africa and Sicily. He was relieved of command by General Bradley.
In a rare move he was given command of another division, the 104th. The 104th was one of the best "high number" divisions in the U.S. Army, and benefited from General Allen's experience. He stressed quick marches to show up in unexpected places and night attacks.
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Posts:
6,344
Registered:
2/27/03
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(25 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 30, 2009 6:05 AM
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Allen's assistant division commander, Teddy Roosevelt Jr., was relieved at the same time and also got a second chance. He landed with the 4th Infantry Division on Utah Beach (and probably did not actually say "We'll start the war from right here.") not sure if he was ADC again or precisely what his position was. About a month later he was selected by Bradley and Eisenhower to take command of the 90th ID which was having problems, so apparently they had a high level of confidence in him. Unfortunately Roosevelt died from a heart attack before he learned of his promotion.
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Posts:
272
From:
Texas
Registered:
6/15/07
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(26 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jul 2, 2009 3:36 PM
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American generals who failed to perform were ususally relieved of command and put it some admiinstrative position.
They still are today and ususally they retire shortly after that.
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