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(1 of 26)
What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 18, 2009 7:32 PM
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In some countries, they lost their lives, in others, they lost their reputations and were subjected to demotion or worse. But Wavell became Viceroy of India, Auchinlek became Commander-in-Chief, India; Fredendall was promoted and given command of Second Army to train. And Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher got command of the Alaskan Sea Frontier.
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705
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(2 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 18, 2009 7:44 PM
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Apparently some Soviet generals got shot,others were sentenced to long (10-20 years ) jail terms or exile to Siberia.
This according to Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn in "The Gulag Archipelago" which I have just started to read.
On the other hand according to Douglas MacArthur they "just fade away".
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(3 of 26)
Jun 18, 2009 8:14 PM
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of the 1930s were, of course, the extreme. Stalin felt threatened by the old guard, so he took steps to remove the threat.
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Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 18, 2009 8:44 PM
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Some examples in the Wehrmacht:
1. Rommel: Forced to commit suicide.
2. Guderian: Fired, reinstated, retired due to "health reasons"..
3. Hoth: Fired
4. Adm. Canaris: Fired, later executed
5. Adm.Raeder: Fired.
6. Jeschonnek: Suicide
7. Udet: ditto.
8. Von Rundsted: retired, brought back, retired-due to "health reasons".
9. Manstein: No new command
10. Galland: Posted to a highly dangerous assignment (JV 44) with the expectation he would be killed.
Harold
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Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 19, 2009 5:36 AM
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In fairness, some who aren't ready to be "the man" still make valuable contributions in subordinate or administrative roles. The British were particularly willing to give someone another chance, including an unusual willingness to take a step back, like Neil Ritchie reverting to corps command after his less-than-stellar performance leading 8th Army. They also recognized that people like Wavell might just need a break - though shifting him east didn't quite work out that way!
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(6 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 19, 2009 1:48 PM
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Another interesting question is "how" did generals and admirals fall out of favor? Ike wrote in his memiors that he thought he was in danger of losing his command after the Battle of the Bulge. It seems that personal relationships and politics might have had more to do with generals falling out of grace than the performance of their duty.
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(7 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 19, 2009 4:20 PM
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the purges were before the war. During the war some were shot like Pavlov at the start for being wrong about tank armies, the majority were sent to penal battallions. THere were a couple of exceptions, some were Stalins cronys and were transfered to quiet posts. One actually was promoted and demoted a couple of times, he was a specialist which helped.
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Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 19, 2009 4:23 PM
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politics helped in getting noticed, the U.S. was very quick to pull the trigger and reassign people. WHen he started Marshall ended the careers of quite a few officers who failed to meet expectation. In many ways the U.S. was too unforgiving and quick to pull the trigger. sometimes people needed time to learn.
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(9 of 26)
Jun 19, 2009 7:51 PM
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Some officers who had reached Major General or higher seemed to hang on long past when they should have been relieved or retired, except of course, Gen. Short, who took the fall for the Army's failures in Hawaii. Fredendall is a case in point - Ike stuck with him far too long - probably because he'd written good fitness reports on Lloyd, and when he did relieve him, recommended him for a cushy job and a promotion. MacArthur kept Sutherland and Kreuger when they were an embarassment to the command. Brereton seemed to lead a charmed life - surviving debacles in the Philippines, the Ploesti raid, Market Garden. Patton wanted to fire Middleton a couple of times and Brad or Ike talked him out of it. 'Court-house" Lee should have been fired and then court-martialed for the way he ripped off the combat troops to live the good life in Paris.
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(10 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 20, 2009 8:14 AM
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In a recent book I read, Tank Tactics I believe, the author spoke of a general that really had a grasp on the concept of tank warfare and he ended up getting fired. Oddly he was under Patton, his name was Wood (memory hazy and I don't have the book here.)
I'd like to know what happens when an American general gets sacked despite being really good at his job.
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(11 of 26)
Major General John Shirley Wood
Jun 20, 2009 1:06 PM
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Commander of the 4th Armored Division, a personal friend and tutor of George Patton. During the Lorraine Campaign, Patton felt it necessary to relieve his old friend, who was physically exhausted and no longer able to perform as he had. Wood returned to the US on sick leave and never returned to combat. Even commanders get battle-weary.
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(12 of 26)
Re: Do you really think so?
Jun 20, 2009 2:30 PM
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i ws thinking more of lower level officers, Brereton is an interesting case. How much is his responsability and how much was others. The Philipines, for example he claims that Sutherland wouldnt let him talk to Mac or to launch the raid.
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299
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(13 of 26)
Jun 21, 2009 5:32 PM
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By out of favor do you mean in the people's eyes or the leader of said nation?
Rommel was forced to commit suicide because of his ties to an assassination attempt on Hitler. He was in the hospital I believe when the attempt started and failed.
--
The only thing that new these days is the history we have yet to discover.- Unknown
Why join the Army and sleep in the dirt and eat MREs when you can sleep in a bunk and get steak and eggs for breakfast in the Navy?
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(14 of 26)
Re: What happens to generals who fall out of favor?
Jun 21, 2009 6:31 PM
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Nobody has mentioned Admiral Byng; court-martialled and executed for the Battle of Minorca in the words of Voltaire ''pour encourager les autres''.
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Posts:
5,573
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(15 of 26)
Jun 21, 2009 7:31 PM
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What does Admiral Byng's execution have to do with WW2?
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