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Posts:
26
Registered:
11/10/08
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(1 of 6)
Jul 2, 2009 6:28 PM
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I know this has been discussed quite a bit in the past, but I just got done watching Valkyrie with Tom Cruise, and wanted to ask your guys' opinion on something. Just how accurate, historically, was the movie as compared to the actual events of the failed attempt? The movie seemed quite "bland" to me, but it does beg the question: what if the plan had succeeded? Who knows how the world would have ended up. Anyway, thanks for your input.
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Posts:
5,050
Registered:
2/15/03
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(2 of 6)
Jul 3, 2009 5:56 PM
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Anthony Beevor deals with this question in his newly published book on D-Day where he devotes a whole chapter to the July 20 1944 plot and Beevor makes the point that even if they had succeeded they would have gone nowhere due to the allies correct policy of Unconditional Surrender-particularly as some of the July 1944 plotters like Von Stulpnagel were still unapolgetic ant-iSemites.
Von Stauffenberg and his cronies were fantasists as far as Realpolitik was concerned -there was simply no way that the western allies were going to double cross the Soviets by making any separate deals with the July 20 plotters had they succeeded.
Beevor also destroys the cozy myth encouraged by the movie ''IS PARIS BURNING?'' that Von Choltiz the Governor of Paris when it fell to the allies in August 1944, was some kind of anti-Nazi hero.
As Beevor in his new D--Day book makes clear, Von Cholttiz was recorded in captivity in a bugged room bragging to Von Arnim about how he had enthusiastically carried orders to murder Jews in Southern Russia.
I suggest you buy Beevors new book on D-DAY-which is presently topping the UK Bestsellers lists and read the Chapter on the July 20 plot..
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Posts:
6,307
Registered:
2/27/03
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(3 of 6)
Jul 6, 2009 1:19 PM
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The movie is quite accurate, including what the Germans THOUGHT they could accomplish if they got rid of Hitler and the Nazi regime.
However there is no indication that the Allies would have been receptive to any proposal they planned to make, especially the idea that they could somehow surrender only to the western Allies.
I thought the movie, as movies tend to do, exagerrated their hero's role a bit; but Stauffenberg despite his relatively junior rank was a major leader of the plot.
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Posts:
5,050
Registered:
2/15/03
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(4 of 6)
Jul 6, 2009 6:08 PM
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I quite enjoyed the movie too-even Tom Cruise's performance which some people scoffed at when it wasannounced that he was playing Stauffenberg.
You are right Carronade there was no chance of the allies departing from unconditional surrender and the July plotters-while brave men were totally naive about Realpolitik to think simply getting rid of Hitler would have encouraged the western allies to make a seperate peace-given that some of them such as Von Stulpnagel were unrepentant Anti-Semites.
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Posts:
6,886
From:
Billings MT.
Registered:
11/02/03
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(5 of 6)
Jul 7, 2009 7:22 AM
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I too enjoyed the movie, and was also surprised at how well Cruise came across. I'm not a big fan of the fellow, but he was good in this role.
I also doubt that they (the conspirators) had much of a chance of gaining a separate peace, since that was the exact reason the "unconditional surrender" term had been used. To reassure Stalin that the west would be in with the Soviets for the long haul, and NOT sign a separate peace with the Nazis.
Even the surrender of the Fascists in Italy was discussed with Stalin before it was implimented, it was only after he agreed, and authorized Eisenhower (I believe) to sign on his behalf that the "terms" were presented to the Italian representatives.
There was NO chance the anti-Nazi group was going to gain a full separate peace with the west. That idea was a non-starter, but they had hopes they simply couldn't justify.
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Happy Trails,
Clint
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Posts:
293
From:
USA
Registered:
4/26/08
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(6 of 6)
Jul 7, 2009 10:37 AM
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If the attempt has taken place earlier in the war and succeeded, then there was a better chance of them getting a better deal, but it took place too late in the war to have done anything besides make the conspirators hero's around the allied world.
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Why join the Army and sleep in the dirt and eat MREs when you can sleep in a bunk and get steak and eggs in the Navy?
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