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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jun 27, 2009 3:28 PM
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Don't waste your time reading Mein Kampf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just finished Listening to it and it is much better to listen than read. The only versions in print or on the web are the old translations from the 30's and 40's which are filled with errors so you are wasting your time.
I highly recommend reading mein kampf but you should read the new Ford translation which has corrected the errors in past editions and it is also by far the easiest to read. It is also the only audio version so dont waste your time trying to get through old versions which are inaccurate anyway.
You should listen to MK though, because what you see in documentaries is never accurate or complete.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jun 29, 2009 7:06 AM
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Ch. 12 - The First Period of Development of the National Socialist German Workers' Party
This is where Hitler lays it all out. His analysis of the causes of the collapse, and his prescription for the redemption of the German people. It all came to pass ! Hitler, in resurrecting Germany, worked a miracle.
The German people were divided into two parts, the first is inconsequential, the second, everything.
"In purely political terms, the following picture presented itself in 1918: a people torn into two parts. The one, by far the smaller, includes the strata of the national intelligentsia, excluding all the physically active. It is outwardly national, yet under this word can conceive of nothing but a very insipid and weak-kneed defense of so-called state interests, which in turn seem identical with dynastic interests.
Confronting it is a second class, the broad mass of the laboring population. It is organized in more or less radical Marxist movements, determined to break all spiritual resistance by the power of violence."
Not a promising scenario. Hitler must direct the rebirth of the German spirit, nothing else will work.
"Consequently the question of regaining German power is not: How shall we manufacture arms? but: How shall we manufacture the spirit which enables a people to bear arms? If this spirit dominates a people, the will finds a thousand ways, every one of which ends in a weapon ! But give a coward ten pistols and if attacked he will not be able to fire a single shot."
The task is formidable.
"It is different with the masses of our internationally minded comrades. In their natural primitiveness, they are more inclined to the idea of violence, and, moreover, their Jewish leadership is more brutal and ruthless. They will crush any German resurrection Just as they once broke the backbone of the German army. But above all: in this state with its parliamentary government they will, thanks to their majority in numbers, not only obstruct any national foreign policy, but also make impossible any higher estimation of the German strength, thus making us seem uradesirable as an ally."
Hitler is also cognizant of Germany's position post Versailles.
"Without the recovery of our external freedom, however, any internal reform, even in the most favorable case, means only the increase of our productivity as a colony."
So, to the task.
"Thus, by 1919 we clearly realized that, as its highest aim, the new movement must first accomplish the nationalization of the masses.
From a tactical standpoint a number of demands resulted from this.
(1) To win the masses for a national resurrection, no social sacrifice is too great.
Whatever economic concessions are made to our working class today, they stand in no proportion to the gain for the entire nation if they help to give the broad masses back to their nation. Only pigheaded short-sightedness, such as is often unfortunately found in our employer circles, can fail to recognize that in the long run there can be no economic upswing for them and hence no economic profit, unless the inner national solidarity of our people is restored."
All of society must be radically reorganized.
(2) The national education of the broad masses can only take place indirectly through a social uplift, since thus exclusively can those general economic premises be created which permit the individual to partake of the cultural goods of the nation."
Hitler is not given to half-measures.
"(3) That is to say, a people cannot be made 'national' in the sense understood by our present-day bourgeoisie, meaning with so and so many limitations, but only nationalistic with the entire vehemence that is inherent in the extreme."
The enemies of the peoples' will must be destroyed.
"(4) The soul of the people can only be won if along with carrying on a positive struggle for our own aims, we destroy the opponent of these aims."
The race question is fundamental.
"(5) Anyone who wants to free the German blood from the manifestations and vices of today, which were originally alien to its nature, will first have to redeem it from the foreign virus of these manifestations.
Without the clearest knowledge of the racial problem and hence of the Jewish problem there will never be a resurrection of the German nation.
The racial question gives the key not only to world history, but to all human culture."
Hitler is really the radical champion of labor and hence of the common man, as opposed to communism which lauds the common man while crushing him. Hitler is willing to truly elevate the worker.
"(6)A movement which wants honestly to give the German worker back to his people and tear him away from the international delusion must sharply attack a conception dominant above all in employer circles, which under national community understands the unresisting economic surrender of the employee to the employer and which chooses to regard any attempt at safeguarding even justified interests regarding the employee's economic existence as an attack on the national community. Such an assertion is not only untrue, but a conscious lie, because the national community imposes its obligations not only on one side but also on the other.
... winning over the bourgeois voting cattle can never be the aim of this movement. "
Unlike 'democracy' which endlessly promotes the fantasy of a 'free press', Hitler openly acknowledges the necessity of propaganda.
"(7) This one-sided but thereby clear position must express itself in the propaganda of the movement and on the other hand in turn is required on propagandist grounds."
The movement must be grassroots, and ruthless.
(8) The goal of a political reform movement will never be reached by enlightenment work or by influencing ruling circles, but only by the achievement of political power. Every world-moving idea has not only the right, but also the duty, of securing, those means which make possible the execution of its ideas."
Parliamentarianism is rejected in favor of German democracy, i.e., rule by Hitler.
"(9) The young movement is in its nature and inner organization anti-parliamentarian; that is, it rejects, in general and in its own inner structure, a principle of majority rule in which the leader is degraded to the level of a mere executant of other people's will and opinion. In little as well as big things, the movement advocates the principle of a Germanic democracy: the leader is elected, but then enjoys unconditional authority."
Another key element - manipulation of this idea is a big part of what enables the oligarchy to render politics a laughable sideshow in the US.
"(10) The movement decisively rejects any position on questions which either lie outside the frame of its political work or, being not of basic importance, are irrelevant for it. Its task is not a religious reformation, but a political reorganization of our people."
The practical considerations (Hitler expounds at some length).
"(11) The question of the movement's inner organization is one of expediency and not of principle."
Fanaticism is essential.
"(12) The future of a movement is conditioned by the fanaticism yes, the intolerance, with which its adherents uphold it as the sole correct movement, and push it past other formations of a similar sort."
A new meaning to 'love thine enemy'.
"(13) On principle the movement must so educate its members that they do not view the struggle as something idly cooked up, but as the thing that they themselves are striving ford Therefore, they must not fear the hostility of their enemies, but must feel that it is the presupposition for their own right to exist. They must not shun the hatred of the enemies of our nationality and our philosophy and its manifestations; they must long for them. And among the manifestations of this hate are lies and slander.
Any man who is not attacked in the Jewish newspapers, not slandered and vilified, is no decent German and no true National Socialist."
National socialism exalts personality, where communism crushes it.
"(14) The movement must promote respect for personality by all means; it must never forget that in personal worth lies the worth of everything human; that every idea and every achievement is the result of one man's creative force and that the admiration of greatness constitutes, not only a tribute of thanks to the latter, but casts a unifying bond around the grateful."
Hitler discusses the early days of the movement (to be continued)
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jun 30, 2009 7:18 AM
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Ch. 12 - The First Period of Development of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (continued)
Hitler concludes the first volume of Mein Kampf with a brief history of the party up to the first great mass meeting in 1920.
The beginnings were humble indeed.
"Consider that six or seven men, all nameless poor devils, had joined together with the intention of forming a movement hoping to succeed-where the powerful great mass parties had hitherto failed-in restoring a German Reich of greater power and glory. If people had attacked us in those days, yes, even if they had laughed at us, in both cases we should have been happy. For the oppressive thing was neither the one nor the other; it was the complete lack of attention we found in those days.
Every Wednesday a so-called committee meeting took place in a Munich cafe, and once a week an evening lecture. Since the whole membership of the 'movement' was at first represented in the committee, the faces of course were always the same. Now the task was at last to burst the bonds of the small circle, to win new supporters, but above all to make the name of the movement known at any price.
In this we used the following technique:
Every month, and later every two weeks, we tried to hold a 'meeting.' The invitations to it were written on the typewriter or sometimes by hand on slips of paper and the first few times were distributed, or handed out, by us personally. Each one of us turned to the circle of his friends, and tried to induce someone or other to attend one of these affairs.
The result was miserable."
Hitler describes how the number attending slowly increased, probably as a result of his rhetorical skills. Hitler is aware of opposition from the beginning.
"For of course the business was dangerous. Little attention as the Reds paid to one of your bourgeois gossip clubs whose inner innocence and hence harmlessness for themselves theyknew better than its own members, they were determined to use every means to get rid of a movement which did seem dangerous to them. Their most effective method in such cases has at all times been terror or violence."
About October, 1919, the second, larger meeting took place in the Eberlbraukeller. Topic: Brestlitovsk and Versailles. Four gentlemen appeared as speakers. I myself spoke for almost an hour and the success was greater than at the first rally. The audience had risen to more than one hundred and thirty. An attempted disturbance was at once nipped in the bud by my comrades. The disturbers flew down the stairs with gashed heads."
Hitler discusses at some length the significance of the name National Socialist Workers Party, this was for the most part lost on me as I don't think the translation captures the meaning of some of the words.
Finally, the party is ready to explode on the national consciousness.
"At the beginning of 1920, I urged the holding of the first great mass meeting. Differences of opinion arose. A few leading party members regarded the affair as premature and hence disastrous in effect. The Red press had begun to concern itself with us and we were fortunate enough gradually to achieve its hatred. We had begun to speak in the discussions at other meetings. Of course, each of us was at once shouted down. There was, however, some success. People got to know us and proportionately as their knowledge of us deepened, the aversion and rage against us grew. And thus we were entitled to hope that in our first great mass meeting we would be visited by a good many of our friends from the Red camp.
The meeting was to be opened at 7:30. At 7:15 I entered the Festsaal of the Hofbrauhaus on the Platzl in Munich, and my heart nearly burst for joy. The gigantic hall-for at that time it still seemed to me gigantic-was overcrowded with people, shoulder to shoulder, a mass numbering almost two thousand people. And above all-those people to whom we wanted to appeal had come. Far more than half the hall seemed to be occupied by Communists and Independents. They had resolved that our first demonstration would come to a speedy end.
But it turned out differently. After the first speaker had finished, I took the floor. A few minutes later there was a hail of shouts, there were violent dashes in the hall, a handful of the most faithful war comrades and other supporters battled with the disturbers, and only little by little were able to restore order.
I was able to go on speaking. After half an hour the applause slowly began to drown out the screaming and shouting.
When after nearly four hours the hall began to empty and the crowd, shoulder to shoulder, began to move, shove, press toward the exit like a slow stream, I knew that now the principles of a movement which could no longer be forgotten were moving out among the German people.
A fire was kindled from whose flame one day the sword must come which would regain freedom for the Germanic Siegfried and life for the German nation.
And side by side with the coming resurrection, I sensed that the goddess of inexorable vengeance for the perjured deed of November 9, 1919, was striding forth.
Thus slowly the hall emptied.
The movement took its course."
End of Volume 1.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jun 30, 2009 7:13 PM
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The only part of Mein Kampf that i agree with is Hitler's endorsement of one of my favourite sports-boxing-in it.Strangely boxing was banned in Kasierine Germany allied troops occupying the Rhineland after WW One introduced it after 1919, where it quickly caught on.
Mind you Hitler's endorsement of boxing didn't stop him from having murdered in Auschwitz, former Jewish/Tuniisian world flyweight champion Victorr ''Young Perez who held that ttle between 1930-32. Another Jewish boxer who survived Auscwitz to fight Rocky Marciano- post war-JEWISH heavyweight Harry Haft was lucky that he survived by boxing on S.S. smokers in Auschwitz..
Al told some 14 boxers were murdered in Auschwitz-despite Hitler's clams that he admired the sport.
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(50 of 78)
Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 7:23 AM
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Hitler seemed to "admire" the sport as long as Aryan boxers were winning. Remember his treatment of Max Schmeling after his loss to Joe Louis?
In spite of his age being beyond the limits, he was "drafted" into a volunteer unit (paratroops), where he was wounded and nearly killed. His Czech wife didn't fare too much better either, seems I read where she was stripped of half of her ration limts, forced out of their house (which was confiscated), and forced to go to work as a seamstress. Don't hold me to that last, my memory seems to be less reliable as I approach my 60th birthday!
--
Happy Trails,
Clint
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 8:06 AM
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I was staggered by Hitler's good writing, sharp political and social analysis, affinity for the working man, and most of all, the relevance of Hitler's situation and analysis to what is happening to the US today.
The situation in post war Germany, according to Hitler -
1. The national spirit had been destroyed by the left.
2. The economy had been destroyed by the international financiers for their own benefit.
3. The working class was dispossessed and in dire straits.
Hitler, regardless of what else may be said of him, resolved these problems and restored Germany's spirit and honor.
Well? In the US today -
1. The assault on the American spirit of say the 50's has been relentless and effective. The public school system has been destroyed, Christianity has become a laughing stock, the WASPs that built the US are rapidly approaching minority status, US foreign policy is controlled by AIPAC, etc., etc., etc. Even English as the national language is criticized. Abortion is a right. Homosexuality is approved and protected. It's beyond amazing.
2. For 20 years the US media and political establishment has endlessly repeated absurdities, that international free trade is no threat to US workers, that de-industrialization is desirable, that financial services will be the basis US 'productivity', that the imbalance of trade has no downside, that the resulting debt is manageable. Finally, the financial oligarchs have taken to outright and open raiding of the US treasury to the tune of trillions of dollars. Are we in a downward spiral? I don't know, but some smart people are saying we are.
3. The working class in the US is an object of overt contempt and has been for 20 years, now the white collar middle class is being decimated by prices, taxes, and debt.
Mein Kampf should be required reading for anyone interested in the current political and social situation in the US.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 8:37 AM
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Yes Clint ,but thanks to Franklin D. Roosevelt' former POstmaster-General, James D. Farley who was a pre-WW2 friend of Herr Max's -Mister and Mrs Schmeling had a fairy tale ending to their post-war hardships-whIich Clint, included the British Army in Hamburg jailing Schmeling for breaching Army of Occupation building regulations and publishing Robert Louis Stevenson's ''Kidnapped'' novel without a license from the British occupying authorities.
Farley used his clout an a ''COCA-COLA executive to get Schmelling the West German ''Coca-Cola '' franchise and Schmerling and his Czech born wife Anny Ondra-who starred in Alfred Hitchcock's first feature film in 1929-lived thereafter in some splendour in West Germany.
Wealth which allowed Herr Max to help pay for the bankrupt Joe Louis's medical bills in the USA..
Incidentally, Clint does the SUNBURST oilfiled still operate in northern Montana?
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 8:49 AM
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Yes, the Sunburst field is still producing up near my childhood home on Montana's Hi-Line. The Sweatgrass Hills are just east of Sunburst, and they were 40 miles north of my home town where I lived until grade 10.
I was also aware of the good fortune which the Schmelings enjoyed with the Coca-Cola company. The made for TV movie Max and Joe covered that and his relationship with Louis.
--
Happy Trails,
Clint
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(54 of 78)
Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 10:05 AM
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I was staggered by Hitler's good writing, sharp political and social analysis, affinity for the working man, and most of all, the relevance of Hitler's situation and analysis to what is happening to the US today.
Hess almost certainly wrote large tracts of the book, it is almost certainly not the work of a single author as stylistic differences between passages show - experts have looked at this and arrived at this conclusion and the idea first arose in the 1930's IIRC.
2. For 20 years the US media and political establishment has...
For for the majority of this time the political right has been in power, unless you mean further to the right of Bush etc?
1. The national spirit had been destroyed by the left.
The right has played no part in this?
3. The working class was dispossessed and in dire straits.
This would be the product of capitalism or communism, certainly the political right has never shown it cares more for the working class than any other political persuasion.
3. The working class in the US is an object of overt contempt and has been for 20 years, now the white collar middle class is being decimated by prices, taxes, and debt.
The same strata of society that Hitler appealed to in Germany, even offering up the same reasons. They did not do too well after the Nazi's came to power despite their support.
Mein Kampf should be required reading for anyone interested in the current political and social situation in the US.
Only if you want them to be confused.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 11:56 AM
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Hess almost certainly wrote large tracts of the book,
Well, more power to him. I thought he was just a kook.
2. For 20 years the US media and political establishment has..
For for the majority of this time the political right has been in power,
Probably with Reagan, the right, that is the paleolithic right, began to disappear. There have been no real 'conservatives' since that time with exception of a few southern troglodytes, and they have been easily manipulated for the most part. If you conflate the Jewish financial class with the right, then the right isn't dead. Otherwise, it has been history for years.
1. The national spirit had been destroyed by the left.
The right has played no part in this?
There ain't no 'conservative right', see above. The left has actively supported every insult to the US spirit, from the inconsequential to the devastating. The only exceptions might be a few southern throwbacks from either party.
3. The working class was dispossessed and in dire straits.
This would be the product of capitalism or communism, certainly the political right
You know, Hitler nailed this too. We have the 'right' in the person of Bill Kristol, for example, arguing with the 'left', in the person of Noam Chomsky. THERE IS NO RIGHT IN THE US. Let's see what Hitler had to say .... for example....
"Industrialization leads to a division in society, which the Jew exploits. While the Jewish financiers are directing the capital, the Jews also gain control of the trade unions to fight the captialists'."
The same group is pulling the strings for the 'left' and the 'right'. These distinctions, while not meaningless in the US, are mainly a function of the charade of US 'democracy'.
3. The working class in the US is an object of overt contempt and has been for 20 years...
The same strata of society that Hitler appealed to in Germany, even offering up the same reasons. They did not do too well after the Nazi's came to power despite their support.
That may be.
Mein Kampf should be required reading for anyone interested in the current political and social situation in the US.
Only if you want them to be confused.
Hey, we're confused already. I've been amazed in my few months of study to discover the almost absolute irrelevance of academic economists and economic historians, at least if my favorites, Choussodovsky, Engdahl, and Hudson, are 10% right. Even heros like Galbraith were shills.
You can visit other lefty websites like commondreams, and see the letter writers bemoaning exactly the same things Hitler complained about, and yet if you write a post that contains his name you will be immediately banned. The history of the subject is 100% verboten. Unbelievable.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 3:04 PM
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Well, more power to him. I thought he was just a kook.
Hard to say, he certainly ended up that way, but whilst always a little odd he was quite extreme in many of his views.
Hey, we're confused already.
The same could be said for Europe too.
I don't dismiss the beliefs of the political Right anymore than I do those of the political Left, neither have a monopoly on being right or wrong. The major problem with the Right, especially the extreme right, is a tendency to become associated with rather unpleasant aspects of history which instantly cloud peoples perceptions - rightly or wrongly. Holding up Hitler as some kind of prophet or martyr really will not work, even if his regime was only guilty of starting WWII - ignoring all atrocities committed - that alone is enough to discredit him. The Left seem to have learnt the lessons somewhat better, few holding up Stalin etc as good examples, instead focusing only on new people who are harder to discredit and disassociating themselves with the past.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 1, 2009 6:11 PM
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Holding up Hitler as some kind of prophet or martyr really will not work, even if his regime was only guilty of starting WWII - ignoring all atrocities committed - that alone is enough to discredit him
Hardly ! He had, even from the little I know, good reasons to start the war. His problem was losing it. Or maybe, and here's a question I'd like to know the answer to, why in the hell did he attack Russia ??? That was the blunder. My guess, without knowing the facts, is that he must have gone mad.
We even saw in Ch. 2 (?) where he discussed the necessity of German expansion, and the possible strategies for it, and war on both eastern and western flanks was not envisioned.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 2, 2009 3:00 AM
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> Holding up Hitler as some kind of prophet or
> martyr really will not work, even if his regime was
> only guilty of starting WWII - ignoring all
> atrocities committed - that alone is enough to
> discredit him
>
> Hardly ! He had, even from the little I know, good
> reasons to start the war.
Hardly!!! Making promises you can't keep otherwise and driving your country into bankruptcy is hardly good reason to start a war.
> Or maybe, and here's a question I'd like to know the
> e answer to, why in the hell did he attack Russia ???
> That was the blunder. My guess, without knowing the
> e facts, is that he must have gone mad.
That was his plan all along. So if he was mad it went back a lot further than 41.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 2, 2009 6:08 AM
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Hardly ! He had, even from the little I know, good reasons to start the war.
Something to do with the German economy going broke due to all the money spent on armaments maybe?
Or maybe, and here's a question I'd like to know the answer to, why in the hell did he attack Russia ???
This was his ultimate objective from the moment he was in control of Germany and had restored the armed forces - its all documented, as you note in Ch2, although the rationality is lacking.
We even saw in Ch. 2 (?) where he discussed the necessity of German expansion, and the possible strategies for it, and war on both eastern and western flanks was not envisioned.
Have you ever been to Germany? It is not a crowded nation even now, there is room for people to live without extending to the Urals or even into Poland - and this is after the Soviet government adjusted the Polish border further west. The claim Germany needed more room was absurd, unless for some reason the average German citizen needed four or five times the land area of others in Europe. Hitler's wish was to create an Empire for personal and national gratification, nothing at all to do with actual needs. It is also rather difficult to expand your territory without taking it off other nations, who will be far from willing to give it up, Hitler's claims for being able to do this are either a ploy or show deep seated stupidity - the latter is not too likely.
My guess, without knowing the facts, is that he must have gone mad.
Perhaps sometime in 1920? As almost everything that happened from 1933 followed long established ideas, not sudden changes due to madness, and that many within Germany also seem to have shared this 'madness' too, the defence of madness certainly does not fit what happened.
Expecting people to look up to Hitler now is silly, far too many fought against him or lost family members who fought against him, to consider he was anything other than a failure. Personal views aside, go and show 500 random people in the street a picture of Hitler and ask what they think. The answers will illustrate perfectly why holding him up as a prophet will not work, he has lost all credibility with the population in general. You could argue that he is unfairly judged, but that will not change the public conception now.
If the extreme right has nothing better than Hitler to look up to after 64 years, they are obviously rather bereft of creative talent in thier political sections.
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Re: Summer reading suggestion - Mein Kampf
Jul 2, 2009 7:58 AM
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Something to do with the German economy going broke due to all the money spent on armaments maybe?
That is laughablel. The Versailles treaty, written by the 'international financiers' bankrupted Germany with incredible demands, and following the bankruptcy they moved in to claim the most productive areas. I don't know the details, but I'm sure others here do, but they ain't tellin ! We can look it up if you like.
Or maybe, and here's a question I'd like to know the answer to, why in the hell did he attack Russia ???
This was his ultimate objective from the moment he was in control of Germany
You could make a weak argument for this from Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, but standing alone that argument doesn't amount to much. Is there other evidence?
We even saw in Ch. 2 (?) where he discussed the necessity of German expansion, .
Have you ever been to Germany? It is not a crowded nation even now,
Hitler says that the German population was increasing by approx. 1 million per year. He had big plans for the future. Now, the population is probably decreasing, unless it's supplemented by Muslims.
My guess, without knowing the facts, is that he must have gone mad.
Perhaps sometime in 1920?
Mein Kampf is full of very sharp, and probably accurate, observation and analysis. Plus, the results of Hitler's wresting control of the country from the leftists and 'financiers' who had destroyed it is amazing. I'd argue that on that basis alone he was the greatest leader of the 20th century. Of course, he's gotten a lot of bad press lately.
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