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(1 of 63)
How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 8:42 AM
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How did the vastly outnumbered R.A.F defeat the mighty Luftwaffe?
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Posts:
8
From:
Devil's Den
Registered:
6/23/09
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(2 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 8:53 AM
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I'm no historian, but I believe 2 reasons answer your question:
1. The Spitfire
2. The total resolve of the people.
Mostly #1.
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(3 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 9:04 AM
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It was through the RAFs use of radar to detect the incoming German aircraft, it was Germany's mistake to switch their attacks onto London instead of continuing their attacks on RAF airfields and radar sites, German aircraft only had a limited time they could spend over British airspace as compared to RAF aircraft which could fly around all day, German pilots who were shot down and survived instantly became POWs, while British pilots who survived shootdowns were rescued and put back in the fight soon after, the Spitfire and the Hurricane fighters were more than a match for the Luftwaffe, and the incompetant leadership of Goering contributed to the Luftwaffe's defeat.
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Posts:
4,563
From:
Southern California Foothills
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9/10/99
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(4 of 63)
Jun 25, 2009 9:21 AM
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>How did the vastly outnumbered R.A.F defeat the mighty Luftwaffe?<
"Vastly" outnumbered doesn't apply to the RAF in the BoB. The RAF had a large fighter force with but one objective; the slightly-larger Luftwaffe fighter force had many objectives and precious little time to accomplish it. Also the RAF fighter force **GREW** during the Battle at a faster rate than the Luftwaffe's.
"Mighty" Luftwaffe is also a misnomer. They were "mighty" when up against inferior forces they could surprise, and could pour their armies into a country to dislocate communications and logistics. With the English Channel and radar warning it wasn't going to happen to Britain. Also, the British had fully prepared long before the war for EXACTLY the type of air battle the Luftwaffe was giving it . The Luftwaffe was fighting a battle for which it was ill prepared ("strategic bombing" with a pittance of the force necessary).
"Defeat" of the Luftwaffe by the RAF was not accomplished and wasn't necessary. The RAF needed only to stave them off and neutralize their success. The RAF mission was not to destroy the Luftwaffe, but to hold them off from achieving the air supremacy that was needed for any attempt at invasion. They did that. It's a matter of who was SUCCESSFUL in accomplishing their mission, not really "Victor" and "Vanquished".
So the outcome actually FAVORED Britain, but it was a difficult struggle nonetheless.
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Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 9:44 AM
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> How did the vastly outnumbered R.A.F defeat the
> mighty Luftwaffe?
As has been pointed out they weren't vastly outnumbered. Indeed they were producing more planes and pilots much quicker than the Germans such that if you plot relative fighter strengths over the BOB they were winning for essentially the entire battle.
They also had a superior comand and control organization using not just radar but numberous acustic and visual spotters all tied to gether by a central comand center. Then there is Ultra.
Furthermore they were fighting over their own turf. Which meant that pilots who bailed out ended up in the hands of friendly forces. It also meant that a badly shot up plane had a good chance of making a save landing. Then there is the AA fire which also didn't help the Germans.
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(6 of 63)
Jun 25, 2009 10:11 AM
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British anti-aircraft artillery was a very poor performer in the Battle of Britain. It really did little other than to give the home folks a warm feeling that something was being done to protect them when they heard the sound of the guns going off as they huddled in the underground stations. Radar and the plotting rooms that directed the RAF were the main protection that saved Britain. Just having the radar by itself wasn't the answer - the command and control that was developed to direct fighter support to the most menacing formations was the key.
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Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 11:30 AM
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Thanks to a huge input from Bonnie Scotland-i.e. Scottish Pofessor Robert Watson-Watt and radar and a Scottish Fighter Command commander from Dumfrieshire, Scotland, called Hugh Dowding who refused Churchill's idea of squandering Fighter Command planes in the Battle of France.
Also by the bravery and sacrifice of young men in Fighter Command from all corners of the world -including the USA-who rallied to defend the mother country in 1940 against the Luftwaffe.
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(8 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 12:36 PM
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Not only was the RAF not vastly outnumbered, they had a HUGE advantage in that a Spitfire could spend FAR more time in the air over England that could a 109.
A RAF pilot could do 4/5 sorties a day, and a LW pilot could do perhaps three. And each of those sorties would be twice as long, or more.
So in fact the RAF could fight maybe 4 times as many minutes a day than the Luftwaffe.
A HUGE advantage.
John.
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Washington state
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(9 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 12:42 PM
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The Germans lost because they were fighting a strategic battle with tactical weapons that were not capable of destroying their assigned targets; had extremely poor intelligence and high-level leadership (their leadership at squadron level was exceptional); and were facing a foe that had prepared for this exact situation, and had the proper weapons, infrastructure, and leadership to repel it. The Germans never really had a chance of achieving their objectives.
--
TV interviewer: Why do you think people love Doctor Who so much?
Russell T. Davies: Because it's the best idea ever invented in the history of the world!
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Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 12:59 PM
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Did the British WIN the Battle of Britain, or did Germany LOSE it?
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(11 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 1:10 PM
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> Did the British WIN the Battle of Britain, or did
> Germany LOSE it?
What a nonsensical question. Obviously the answer is Yes.
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5,015
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(12 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 3:17 PM
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Don't forget the Hurricanes.
Although the Spitfires received the most accollades (and seemed to be a beautiful airplane in appearance and flight characteristics), the durable Hurricanes did more than hold their own against their Luftwaffe adversaries.
German pilots tended to over-report encounters with Spitfires, apparantly not wanting to admit how much trouble they were having with the Hurricanes.
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(13 of 63)
Re: Just for the record...
Jun 25, 2009 4:25 PM
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> British anti-aircraft artillery was a very poor
> performer in the Battle of Britain. It really did
> little other than to give the home folks a warm
> feeling that something was being done to protect them
> when they heard the sound of the guns going off as
> they huddled in the underground stations.
True for the Blitz which followed the Battle Of Britain but in the day battle the AA helped keep the bombers above 10,000 ft where their bombing effectiveness was greatly reduced, and they did shoot down and damage a number of Luftwaffe aircraft.
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If in doubt..... Panic !!!!!
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(14 of 63)
Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 5:00 PM
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Indeed, the "outnumbered RAF" legend is just that. It does have an understandable basis, however, since German intelligence significantly underestimated British fighter strength.
My link to the site with the numbers doesn't work right now, but if my memory serves me correct (a dangerous assumption), they estimated that at the beginning of the Battle of Britain that British fighter strength was between 1/2 and 2/3 of that of the Luftwaffe. In truth, it was pretty close to equal. Likewise, the Germans assumed that under the burdens of the German U-Boat warfare and their bombing campaign, that British fighter strength would be steadily decreasing through attrition and reduced production capacity. Instead, British fighter strength was increasing at a faster rate than the Germans could produce fighter aircraft to replace their own losses.
This over-estimate led to some pretty poor strategic decision-making by the Germans, chief among them the assumption that if they just kept at it, British air defences would eventually crumble. To the contrary, the BoB did more harm to the Luftwaffe than it did to the RAF.
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Re: How on earth did the R.A.F win the battle of BritAIN?
Jun 25, 2009 5:07 PM
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the Germans were poorly prepared for strategic bombing. THey were made for supporting ground attacks. Their bombers were not able to carry heavy ordinance needed for strategic bombing. THe fighters were of very limited range and not capable of sustained combat over Britain. Numbers wise the Luftwaffe and RAF were about equal.
THe losses sustained by the German bombers were not replaced and they trainings schools were shut down in 1942
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