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Posts:
4,126
Registered:
10/23/00
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(16 of 24)
Re: Helping China...a mistake???
Aug 1, 2008 6:04 AM
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> > * Flying the Himalayas to try and supply China.
> It
> > It was stupid and wasteful to expend so much
> effort
> > to ship material 1/2 around world, port it to
> > airfields and then fly over the Himalayas.
>
> The alternative??? Let China rot and surrender to
> Japan?
Don't be so dramatic. All the efforts we did amounted to what, exactly? Even the effort to base B-29 bombers there was abandoned shortly after it finally came about because it was so unwieldy.
China never stopped a Japanese offensive, with or without our aluminum highway. It was a pipe dream that we could both outfit their army, and that it could then be used to defeat Japan. Truth is, Japan couldn't conquer China, it was too large.
> Then the Imperial forces could turn
> everything they had on India and redoubling their
> efforts to stay on/renew the offensive against the
> USN in the Pacific Ocean and associated islands.
regular foot soldiers in China doesn't equal the forces necessary to fight the US in the Pacific. What they needed in the Pacific was naval forces, merchant shipping and transports, aircraft. Nothing of note would be freed up. You can only put so many infantry men in bunkers on Iwo Jima or New Guinea or Eniwetok. I would point out that having them on an island is one thing, supplying them is another. Those islands can't support large populations (food, even water). The Japanese force that were hopped over often starved.
Look at the opposite - how much effort was put into shipping that was needed for US offensives in the Pacific - the ones that ACTUALLY WON THE WAR? How about the effort to build ports, airbases, roads and supply dumps in India, airfields in China? How about using all those aircraft and aviation fuel in key war zones?
Sideshows are just that - sideshows that detract from winning the war. Once the US got armed and focused, it steamrollered Japan in a hard fight - but make no doubt about it, once we got rolling, we rolled, without stop, to the doorstep of Japan. In the meantime, the war in China... remained the war in China.
t
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Posts:
341
From:
Cola SC
Registered:
8/1/08
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(17 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 1, 2008 2:33 PM
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> How do you bomb someone by accident?
>
Hilter himself ordered no bombing of Brit civilians. Churchhill didn't hesitate to launch a massive bombing raid against German civilians hoping the Germans would blame the Nazis. Questionable ethics on the part of Churchhill.
Biggest blunder ? Japs attacking US ! Doubtful US declares war on Japan without them attacking us first. Japs could have helped Germans tremendously by attacking the Soviets and NOT attacking US.
Other blunder, if you can call it that, was Germans not developing better long range fighters. FW 190 and ME 109 are awesome fighters, but for only 10 minuntes max over London. Add an hour to that. Target RAF and factories making planes and Germans might could have invaded.
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Posts:
1,615
From:
UK
Registered:
5/1/08
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(18 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 1, 2008 3:14 PM
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That was incredibly respectful of the man, however ask a Pole what was done to their cities in '39. Ask some of the Spanish at Guernica what happened there. Maybe, just maybe, having once been on the wrong end of a British bayonet he held some regard and trepidation towards the peace loving United Kingdom.
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DARE TO LOSE
My signature looks a little tremulous, but my resolution is firm.
--
Edited by herosrest at 08/01/2008 3:16 PM
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Posts:
325
From:
Northern California
Registered:
3/30/00
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(19 of 24)
Re: Helping China...a mistake???
Aug 1, 2008 5:22 PM
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Well said, scout.
I might add that Chiang Kai-Shek demanded, and got, payment in gold for the construction of the B-29 airfields. Was the money used to pay the laborers that did the building? Not a cent. All of it went into Chiang's private bank accounts, as well as those of his relatives in the Soong Family. All told, they reaped an enormous fortune in American aid money.
A large percentage of American equipment sent to Chiang's troops were immediately confiscated by Chinese Officers to be used as privately owned vehicles, driven by enlisted chauffers and sold for profit as soon as the next shipment of equipment came in.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more"
-Willliam Shakespeare, Henry V
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Posts:
626
Registered:
9/30/07
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(20 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 2, 2008 1:07 AM
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Here are a few:
Hitler letting the British escape at Dunkirk.
Hitler declaring war on the US.
Hitler invading Russia......(Probably his worst decision)
The whole Italian Campaign
Peleliu
Most of what the Japanese did.
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Posts:
341
From:
Cola SC
Registered:
8/1/08
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(21 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 5, 2008 8:36 AM
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Great topic. Some additional blunders:
--US failing to have communications with airfields in place in Oahu. From either the USS Ward, after confronting the midget sub. Or from the radar station. Why in the world did the US brass drag their feet so badly on setting up their radar defense ? The British had a great model to follow---comm from radar to command center-- then comm to airfields. It's shocking to believe US didn't have comm setup to airfields. Why the Hell even have the radar since it serves no purpose without a comm to the airfields ? It's grotesquely incompetent. And of course better training was needed too since the reflection of the 300 Japanese planes was badly misinterpreted as the 12 US B-17s flying in from Cal.
Think about it. 1 bomb from 1 Japanese plane hit the blackpowder stockpile (forgot why the blackpowder was there) in the USS Arizona. The pilot made a very accurate drop. But shooting, no matter what kind, is harder under duress. If 40 or 50 P-40s and Wildcats are buzzing around the skys of Pearl Harbor, it's very likely the Japanese pilot doesn't make such a perfect shot. It would only take a fraction of second difference. That's over 1,000 US sailors killed.
--- American paratroopers shot to sh*t by American guns in Italy. I don't know all the details on this one and will look it up one day, but I'm pretty sure I read/heard the US casualties were in the hundreds. Unreal.
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Tony
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Posts:
1,718
Registered:
2/12/03
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(22 of 24)
Here's one nobody mentioned!
Aug 5, 2008 11:29 AM
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How about America's failure to consider anti-submarine protection on our East Coast once we went to war with Germany. Donitz came up with Operation Drumbeat (AKA: The American Shooting Season) which led to the destruction of nearly 400 ships in a six month period.
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Guest
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(23 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 5, 2008 12:21 PM
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France:
Not invading Germany in 1939-winter of 1940
Germany: Failure to relegate Hitler to a pure political/propaganda position and let the military handle the war
Italy: Not pressuring Hitler into waiting for war-as they were completely unprepared
Japan: Don't get my started on this, worst generals and leaders in the history of combat-a waste of a perfectly good navy.
Declaring war on the US and not aiding Germany against the USSR (in fact invading the US and signing a peace treaty with the USSR sealed the defeat for the Germans at the battle of Moscow and definitely cost the Axis the war).
U.S Nothing major really, I guess market garden could have been avoided but the loss in life in this was almost insignificant compared to what was going on else where....
Russia: As far as the war is concerned Stalin kept out of it for the most part and I feel they made the least blunders but I guess I would say putting all those men and equipment so close and unprepared on the german/polish border almost sealed their fate.....
guys, seriously? "Great blunders of ww2" and you put a few 100 paratroopers shot in friendly fire and some random training exercise where a transport was sunk!? Tragic? Yes war defining moment worthy of this topic?? Absolutely not.........
worst blunder of all major powers I would give to Japan. The worst thing they could have done in 1941 was bring in the last super power who was netural into the war AND sign a peace treaty with the USSR while their most powerful ally was locked in the biggest military struggle seen thus far in history. Even all the mistakes Hiler made could have been fixed long term had Japan not acted the way it did.
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Posts:
9,865
Registered:
11/18/04
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(24 of 24)
Re: great blunders of world war 2
Aug 5, 2008 3:37 PM
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Considering the state of Germany after the surrender, and the great loss of human life through out the war, I would have to say the biggest blunder was Germany invading Poland and starting the war.
--
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I said."
Alan Greenspan
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein
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