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Obama Says US Ready to Lead Once More - But Is Anyone Else Ready to Follow?
Jan 22, 2009 3:34 AM
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Interesting article in today's paper,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/22/obama-white-house-barack-obama
Now I don't entirely agree with all the points raised within it, but it raises an interesting question; When Obama made the claim that America was "ready to lead the world once more", who exactly was he addressing?
During the depths of the cold war America could claim, with some degree of accuracy to be the 'leader of the free world', but recent experience of Iraq and Afghanistan surely suggests that many of the worlds liberal democracies no longer consider America to provide the lead in the international sphere.
The rise of China, the rejuvenation of Russian foreign policy and slow but steady progress towards a unified EU all seem to suggest to me that the world is rapidly heading back to a situation similar to that which existed pre-1945, with no one, or two powers being able to substantially dominate the rest of the planet.
Or is such rhetoric aimed squarely at a domestic audience; designed to make Americans feel better about themselves in these turbulent times?
So is America still 'leading the world', or is this just hot air?
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(2 of 34)
Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 22, 2009 5:18 AM
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Well, it wasn't Bosnia where leading democracy watched as 8,000 Muslim boys and men were slaughtered in front of them. Nothing but talk in the Congo, Sudan, Burma..... Well let's not forget get the UK in Basra doing their Monty Python "Run away!!!" impression. Oh - that was bad. Well there was....... Wait! Wait! Give me a minute. I'll think of something the Euros did......Well maybe the Canadians..... Okay..... Someone help me here!!!............Anything??? Anybody?????
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Re: Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 22, 2009 6:19 AM
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Nice to see you can always be relied on for a sensible answer.
Bosnia? I'm talking about 2009, not 1999.
Both the rhetoric and actions of EU states over the past seven years suggests that few of them still consider the US to be their 'leader' in geopolitical terms.
Unless Obama was talking in abstracts and refering to the US leading by example on the things like climate change, or human rights?
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(5 of 34)
Re: Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 22, 2009 9:37 AM
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> Well, it wasn't Bosnia where leading democracy
> watched as 8,000 Muslim boys and men were slaughtered
> in front of them. Nothing but talk in the Congo,
> Sudan, Burma....
Yes it was. I seem to recall the Clinton Administration refused to even jam the murderous broadcasts of Hutu radio, and I seem to recall one US diplomat inadvertently giving a 'green light' to a Serbian assault on a Bosnian town by stating that the US wouldn't interevene.
The United States has been as good as Europe when it comes to talk without action.
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Posts:
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(7 of 34)
Rwanda? That was the Belgies and French
Jan 25, 2009 3:22 AM
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Why on earth didn't they jam the frigging airwaves if indeed that could have prevented anything.
But - you make my point for me - there you are insisting that the only solution had to be US action.
The US gave no green light in Bosnia. The US did the heavy lifting after Europeans failed to stop the slaughter. Only after US intervention (and endless Serbia whining) did the balkans finally have a solution after centuries of European mismanagement.
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(8 of 34)
Re: Obama Says US Ready to Lead Once More - But Is Anyone Else Ready to Follow?
Jan 25, 2009 3:33 AM
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Obama is exactly right.....
strange article...the author has no real point to make
the change Obama is bringing is more than he can grasp
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From:
GLASGOW
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(9 of 34)
Re: Rwanda? That was the Belgies and French
Jan 25, 2009 10:46 AM
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It was the United States as well as the Belgians and French (not to mention most other nations involved).
>Why on earth didn't they jam the frigging airwaves if
>indeed that could have prevented anything.
I am suggesting that blocking the boradcasts inciting gangs to murder innocent people may have been a symbolic gesture that was well within the power of the United States and yet was turned down.
>The US gave no green light in Bosnia. The US did the
>heavy lifting after Europeans failed to stop the slaughter.
>Only after US intervention (and endless Serbia whining)
>did the balkans finally have a solution after centuries of
>European mismanagement.
The United States was as inept as Europe in its dealings with the Serbs until the mid 1990's. and the situation is far from resolved. Most of them have stopped killing each other for now, although there is still some ethnic violence.
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Re: Ah Dole....you mean what Euros do after the fact...
Jan 26, 2009 2:07 AM
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> Perhaps you should do a little more basic research
>
> l
> http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/coun
> tries/sierraleone/
>
> Elections - that do seem to be something that gives
> Euro 'peacekeepers" headaches.....
I'm starting to think that you are deliberately trying to make yourself look foolish.
Your link refers to civilian aid provided by the US Government to Sierra Leone from 2002 onwards, and is therefore largely irrelevant to a discussion of the British military intervention which occured in 2000.
Quote from wikipedia article on Sierra Leone's civil war;
British forces unilaterally intervened in May 2000 to evacuate British subjects and safeguard the Freetown airport for UN use. Within days "mission creep" found the British taking effective control of the government and organizing an offensive against the rebels. The rebel leader was captured, the peace process resumed, and the British left a training team to reconstruct the armed forces into an instrument of reliable state security. Within a year of British intervention, UN forces were in full control of the country, and gradually began handing over control to the reconstituted and retrained Sierra Leone armed forces.
Also see here;
http://www.stormingmedia.us/59/5955/A595574.html
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Re: Obama Says US Ready to Lead Once More - But Is Anyone Else Ready to Follow?
Jan 28, 2009 9:07 PM
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America has lost its shine; a statement like that might have carried some weight in 1999 but after the farce of the 2000 election, the thorough mess in Iraq, the rise of the China and Russia, the stagnation in Afghanistan, the unspeakably large amount of debt in the West, and the collapse of the economy the ?leader? is looking a little lost.
Where can America lead? In defence America will inevitably roll-back her influence, the age of liberal intervention and spreading freedom is surely dead. In terms of dealing with baddies NK and Iran the real mission of this administration is going to be accepting reality in as dignified a manner as possible; if Tehran wants Nukes Washington can't stop them.
Where America has something to offer is ironically in the areas she has been so belligerent about doing nothing in the past; strong action on Israel, climate change and starting seriously consider energy security. Leading by example is the only course open to the USA.
So yes the speech was ultimately an attempt to gee up the home crowd.
--
"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."
Leo Tolstoy
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(12 of 34)
Re: Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 28, 2009 9:16 PM
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And did the Europeans welcome American intervention in the Balkans before the mid-1990s? I thought it was supposed to the 'hour of Europe'.
"and I seem to recall one US diplomat inadvertently giving a 'green light' to a Serbian assault on a Bosnian town by stating that the US wouldn't interevene"
Didn't the British general on the ground in Grozde complain that Bosnian's just wanted the west to fight their wars for them and that "One bloke with a crowbar" could stop a Serb armoured assault?
The British did everything in their power to frustrate atempts to take strong action in Balkans.
--
"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."
Leo Tolstoy
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Re: Obama Says US Ready to Lead Once More - But Is Anyone Else Ready to Follow?
Jan 28, 2009 9:51 PM
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I see that you are detail heavy as ever Rouget.
"the change Obama is bringing is more than he can grasp "
The age of Aquarius?
--
"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."
Leo Tolstoy
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From:
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(14 of 34)
Re: Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 29, 2009 8:57 AM
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> And did the Europeans welcome American intervention
> in the Balkans before the mid-1990s? I thought it was
> supposed to the 'hour of Europe'.
>
> Didn't the British general on the ground in Grozde
> complain that Bosnian's just wanted the west to fight
> their wars for them and that "One bloke with a
> crowbar" could stop a Serb armoured assault?
>
> The British did everything in their power to
> frustrate atempts to take strong action in Balkans.
Yes they did. Although I don't quite see how this makes the United States look any better, just because it was as bad as the others. Perhaps you could explain?
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(15 of 34)
Re: Yeah... liberal democracies lead the charge...
Jan 29, 2009 9:01 AM
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