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7,478
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(46 of 94)
Re: CRWIHFB re: your commentary
Jun 14, 2003 10:29 AM
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Its kinda cool when left and right can shake hands in the middle.
My wife and I were discussing PPD last night and she agrees with your take on it. Being a guy, I don't have alot of experience with PPD obviously. It seemed very serious to me after reading about some of the child murders that occured with the mother using PPD as a defense. Ya learn something new every day.
You won't be afraid if you use your mind and think - Jim Kirk, Star Trek TOS
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284
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(47 of 94)
Re: Licensed to Give Birth
Jun 14, 2003 11:42 AM
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It isn't so much children I dislike... it's their PARENTS... most people simply should NOT reproduce... I shouldn't either, but that's because getting in the gene pool is beneath me.... :D
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129
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(48 of 94)
Jun 14, 2003 1:07 PM
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I must confess that your messages, as I have read several of them on this post, are full of irrationality, faulty logic, and a weak grasp of history.
You have claimed that Jesus was a liberal, a "hippy" of his day or something like that. Yet on the same hand you say that those who believe in traditional family values, abstinence, etc etc etc, ideas put forth by Christ are narrow minded, backward and even compare them to the social policy of the Third Reich. Well, which is it. Was Jesus a "progressive" or was he a Nazi? You can't call in the power of God on your side with one hand and bash it with the other, that is unless your argument is full of irrationality, which it is.
Secondly you say that Conservatives trust government and love it and are always eager to take away rights? Who hands out the food stamps, social security, welfare, administers the reverse discrimination (or as you "progessives" like to call it affirmative action)? It isn't Santa Claus, its big government, which your side worships.
Your hogwash about America being better in the ideal than in reality is typical liberal propaganda. The left and all of its proponents, including yourself and your Marxist cronies, hate the very idea of the United States, yet for some reason you cannot bring yourself to say it, although it leaks out more and more over the years. You call our nation selfish, but I defy you to point out a country that has donated more to humanitarian causes, liberated nations without demanding repayment and been the defender of liberty for as long as the US.
Since you have decided to show your entirely inadequate knowlege of history I will point out a few mind boggling facts for you. The party that ended slavery was the REPUBLICAN party. The party that created the Jim Crow laws and worked to oppress blacks and poor whites in the south were the DEMOCRATS. The Republican party lost consistently in the south to the democratic party because it was the party of freedom. The Democrat Party whose glorious ranks are still represented by blatant racists such as Senator Byrd and even a young Trent Lott, who you are more than welcome to have back due to his spineless apologies, has always been the party of close mindedness. Remember a controversial figure named George Wallace, there was a reason he called himself a Dixiecrat rather than a Dixiecan.
As for your ode to Socialism and its proponents around the world, please go back to your Marxist-Leninist reader. Socialism has failed blatantly in every country it has been tried in. Britain nearly went under due to its "Socialist experiment" and was only revived by the conservative policies of Lady Thatcher. Those European countries who practice socialism cannot afford to pay the bills for their nation, since they are so busy giving it "back" to the poor who pay no taxes.
BTW there is a reason that conservatives will overwhelmingly win the 2004 elections, as you have pointed out, because Americans are sick of "intelligent liberals" (an oxymoron to say the least) such as yourself sitting in their ivory towers looking down at the common man and informing them of the "right" path. Americans are sick of government enforced racism, such as that taking place at the University of Michigan, they are sick of the government taking more and more money from them, only to run up more and more debt, and they are tired of being told to be ashamed of a past which they are proud of, because a few people get their feelings hurt once in a while.
The day of the high minded liberal is over. Now the dog will have its day.
"In our day no one has conceived anything great; it falls to me to give the example." -Napoleon-
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3,241
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(49 of 94)
Re: Dogpile the liberal! Hahaha.
Jun 15, 2003 8:18 PM
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I wish I had the time or the will to respond to all of this tripe, but I don't.
<<>>
-What you just described was a Conservative. Liberasl think the government has all the answers and should think for the populace. The Conservative ideology contradicts that inane ideology by advocating less government and more individual responsibility. Get it right, pal!
BTW: There were many reasons for the Great Depression, although individuals such as yourself enjoy exploiting that tragic era in our history to pursue an invidious agenda against Capitalism. Capitalism is a great thing. You should also know that FDR's New Deal was a failure. He created a massive government that is still with us today.
You and your friends should know that the government is not the answer to our problems but the cause of many of our problems. Ronald Reagan said that and I believe it.
Well, the Kennedy brothers actually perpetuated racism in the South through their actions. You can look on the other pages on this forum, the US History forum and look for my post about Civil Rights and the two political parties. You may learn something.
You're not the first liberal with an agenda to exploit the 19th century and characterize Lincoln as a liberal. That is simply erroneous and you should be ashamed of yourself, but then again you're a liberal, so perhaps I'm asking too much of you. You CANNOT apply today's standards of a liberal and a Conservative to the 19th century. The issues which we face today were entirely different from those faced at that time. It is historically inaccurate to apply standards and widely accepted beliefs to a time in which the country was extremely different. And it demonstrates your lack of knowledge concerning American history. That would be like me saying Wilson, FDR, and Truman were really Conservatives because they championed a strong military and a vigorous foreign policy. I believe that today Truman and Kennedy might very well be Republicans because of the change in the issues. Please, don't distort history to assuage your decrepit and putrid liberal agenda. I've seen guys like you play this game for some time and I don't like it.
The mindless liberalism which you subscribe to is a deplorable and feckless ideology. This virulent strain of mindless liberalism suffesing this great nation will lead to our demise. That is why I'm committed to exposing the fraud of the liberal agenda.
I wish you knew what you were talking about. But you don't.
"The other thing we have to do is to take seriously the role in this problem of older men who prey on underage women. There are consequences to decisions and one way or another, people always wind up being held accountable." -Bill Clinton/1996
"Yes, the President should resign. He has lied to the American people, time and time again, and betrayed their trust. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign."
-Bill Clinton/1974
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3,241
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(50 of 94)
Jun 15, 2003 8:21 PM
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I don't think I could have said ti any better myself.
Take care.
"The other thing we have to do is to take seriously the role in this problem of older men who prey on underage women. There are consequences to decisions and one way or another, people always wind up being held accountable." -Bill Clinton/1996
"Yes, the President should resign. He has lied to the American people, time and time again, and betrayed their trust. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign."
-Bill Clinton/1974
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3,241
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(51 of 94)
Re: Licensed to Give Birth, wow
Jun 15, 2003 8:36 PM
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Some pretty extreme views there. You seem to be the one who sounds like a Nazi storm trooper.
A license to have children? What's next? A license to die?
Stop with this inanity.
Yes, idiots will have babies. This is one of the main reaosns why I support abortion. Idiots will have sex regardless of the consequences. That's just the way it is. Thus, I must support abortion. We cannot have idiots who aren't willing to raise children.
But espousing that children should have their genitals removed is just plain ludicrous.
Calm yourself.
"The other thing we have to do is to take seriously the role in this problem of older men who prey on underage women. There are consequences to decisions and one way or another, people always wind up being held accountable." -Bill Clinton/1996
"Yes, the President should resign. He has lied to the American people, time and time again, and betrayed their trust. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign."
-Bill Clinton/1974
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25
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(52 of 94)
Adolph Hitler on Christianity:
Jun 16, 2003 10:20 AM
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"I may not be a light of the church, a pulpiteer, but deep down I am a pious man, and believe that whoever fights bravely in defense of the natural laws framed by God and never capitulates will never be deserted by the Lawgiver, but will, in the end, receive the blessings of Providence."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on July 5, 1944
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
Adolf Hitler
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."
Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
"The anti-Semitism of the new [Christian Social] movement was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge."
Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
"Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, January 30, 1934.
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Reichstag, Berlin, 1936.
"May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Berlin, February 1, 1933.
"The judgment whether a people is virtuous or not virtuous can hardly be passed by a human being. That should be left to God."
Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Wilhelmshaven, April 1, 1939.
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284
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11/29/99
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(53 of 94)
Re: Dogpile the liberal! Hahaha.
Jun 16, 2003 10:57 AM
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It seems you only call things tripe if they do not agree with you... shows a closed mind... also, harping on record does nothing for the current situations.
I have agreed with what you said in the past, NYR... but you have also presented them with some reason and without much name-calling.
This post, however, is beneath you, man.
:D
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3,241
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(54 of 94)
Re: Dogpile the liberal! Hahaha.
Jun 16, 2003 11:18 AM
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Sundiata, we've talked much in the past. You are a pretty civil guy. This character isn't. I read many of his responses on this thread and I'm obviously dealing with a mendacious or incredibly inept person.
He's made his invective well known on this thread. When arguing with these sort of individuals, I find that a heavy hand is required. Civility is not something goofs like this character respect.
Take care.
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Posts:
12,357
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9/13/99
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(55 of 94)
Hitler also pronounced...
Jun 16, 2003 12:02 PM
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...Christianity a "Jewish swindle" and derided it in his conversations with other top Nazis as making Germany weak, a view endorsed by Himmler as well as by Martin Bormann who added that one could be a National Socialist or a Christian but not both. Hitler's own religious ideas were one of a rather impersonal providence. One can call it God or nature, but this isn't the equivalent of believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. What you've listed is likely Hitler following his own private law that he would do anything or sign anything to get his way. He constantly did this throughout his life from treaties he signed and promptly tore up, to pronouncements that he didn't want all of Czechoslovakia, to mentioning that homosexuals made the best street fighters even though he would turn on them with a vengeance after achieving power.
"It [the song chorus] doesn't mean anything. It's like ramalama ding dong, or give peace a chance." -Homer Simpson
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Posts:
12,357
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(56 of 94)
Jun 16, 2003 12:22 PM
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"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (Hitler, Table Talks, October 10, 1941)
"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little...."(Hitler, Table Talks, October 14, 1941).
"You see its been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice to the fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness, and flabbiness?" -Hitler.
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges the pox and Christianity." (Hitler, Table Talks October 19, 1941).
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (Hitler, Table Talks, December 14, 1941)
"It [the song chorus] doesn't mean anything. It's like ramalama ding dong, or give peace a chance." -Homer Simpson
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Posts:
1,793
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Registered:
12/6/00
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(57 of 94)
I can see dark humor is wasted on you
Jun 16, 2003 7:07 PM
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> Some pretty extreme views there. You seem to be the
> one who sounds like a Nazi storm trooper.
Lighten up, sweet cheeks. All I am saying is in a society where nearly everything requires some legal writ, a consistent argument would hold that birth, perhaps the most important thing a person can do, should also require a license.
>
> A license to have children? What's next? A license to
> die?
Well, it IS against the law to commit suicide. And there are people who can murer with a license--they're called Marines.
>
> Stop with this inanity.
Who died and made you Sarah Powter, or whoever that butch chick was about a decade ago who wrote STOP THE INSANITY?
>
> Yes, idiots will have babies. This is one of the main
> reaosns why I support abortion. Idiots will have sex
> regardless of the consequences. That's just the way
> it is. Thus, I must support abortion.
Some Republican you are. A Republican supporting abortion? Isn't that an oxymoron?
We cannot have
> idiots who aren't willing to raise children.
And yet it happens every day. I say licensed mothering, you say legal abortion. I say to-MAY-to, you say to-MAH-to.
>
> But espousing that children should have their
> genitals removed is just plain ludicrous.
>
> Calm yourself.
Christ Almighty, it was a joke. Well, sort of.
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17,964
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(58 of 94)
Re: CRWIHFB re: your commentary
Jun 16, 2003 9:14 PM
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> Its kinda cool when left and right >can shake hands in the middle.
(Sigh...) Yeah, it is; and until the 1980's, it was still possible. I don't know how old you are, but I grewup in the 50's, in a household where FDR was revered, and the only Republican who was ever bad-mouthed was "Tailgunner" Joe McCarthy. My family was lower middle class, working folk, and it was solidly understood that the Democrats were "our" party.
Imagine blossoming into the '60's, when the envelopes of society were really being pushed by many groups of people. Some too far, yes, but others were making America the nation we had always known she should be. Then they shot JFK, and Bobby, and Martin, and whatever dreams we had died with them. Even the monumental achievement JFK had spoken of in 1962, of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade, wasn't enough to restore our innocent belief in ourselves and our country.
The '70's dawned on an America which basically hated itself. We hated the war, but our leaders kept reminding us that we had never lost a war, and must continue for national pride. The Republicans, thinking that a conservative backlash to the "free-love" '60's would put them in power, wasted no time in trotting out their old warhorse, Tricky Dick and his "rat-fuck" squad (as well as CREEP)did everything in their power to discredit every viable moderate democrat, leaving only liberal Gene McCarthy as a sad representative for office. The '70's were like the music that defined the decade, disco--plastic, synthesized, and with little emotional investment. (They took our heroes in the '60's; we weren't going to let them hurt us like that again. We had dared to dream, and the reality of what power is was forcibly brought home to us.)
Ronald Reagan was elected in the '80's because he was exactly what this country was looking for--someone who would say what we wanted to hear, regardless of whether he was lying to us or not. It was at this point that politics turned nasty. If anyone disputed reagan, he was "un-American" or worse yet, a "lib'ral". It was also at this point that Democrats forgot that they were the party of the little guy, as big money became more and more important in politics.
Why was Bill Clinton elected in the '90's? Most folks believe it was because George the First said, "Read My Lips--no new taxes", but I think it was because we had seen the kind of people the Republican party was putting up for office--ideologues, or worse yet, Dan Quayle, who was supposed to be the young, handsome JFK of his party. (The thought of Dan Quayle just one bullet from the Presidency still makes me nauseous...)
Ronald Reagan and Dubya share a common trait--they are (were) both hands-off administrators who do sound bites well, and look heroic, but who are disassociated with the true ruling elite--the people with whom they surrounde themselves.
So, here we are today--a Republican party that has been overwhelmed by its ultraconservative faction, a Democratic party which has forgotten its roots, and no meeting of minds, for the oligarchs and plutocrats now run the country.
The best, most decent men of each partywon't subject themselves to the process now, which leaves the door open for only party hacks. I had a dream of a campaign between two Viet Nam heroes, John McCain, and John Kerry...but it will never happen. McCain was squelched before, and Kerry will never survive the nominating process...
And yet you and I can sit and discuss things without calling names or having more than intellectual disagreement, because neither of us is as far to the outer edge of his political beliefs as the pollsters would have us believe. It's a bitch, ain't it? when we rabble are actually more reaonable than the folks we elect to represent us...
> My wife and I were discussing PPD >last night and she agrees with your >take on it. Being a guy, I don't
> have alot of experience with PPD >obviously. It seemed very serious to >me after reading about some of the
> child murders that occured with the >mother using PPD
> as a defense. Ya learn something new every day.
I respect the fact that you didn't do one of those "guy things" that we do, and just write PPD off as an example of normal female insanity. It can be horribly debillitating, and can lead to severe physical and emotional problems for women who suffer severe cases. BUT, think of this: think of the addest that you have ever been in your life. Now, imagine that that sadness not only doesn't ease up, but stays the same day after day after day. Then, think of the maddest you've ever been in your life (perhaps some terrible injustice you suffered through, in which, for one blinding moment, you considered comitting murder--or at least massive bodily injury to someone.)
When you have rolled those feelings around in your mind for a moment, try to reconcile them. Try to imagine being so sad that you can barely function, and at that point, trying to commit serious injury to someone. See the problem? Where the hell do you get the ENERGY?
PPD, by and of itself, is like a huge leech--it sucks everything out of you, and makes you emotionally unstable. Because of the surging hormmones, you could be considered technically crazy, I guess. However, when you see a woman using it as a defense for the indefesible, don't waste a bit of sympathy on her--look to see what she would gain (or thought she would gain) by performing whatever act she performed.
What you'll find is that these women are usually self-interested to an extreme degree, and are willing to use PPD as an explanation for their abhorrent behavior. In our society, PPD is know well enough (and is usually caught by good GYN's in follow up appointments after delivery) so that PPD should never see the light of day in a courtroom again.
Sorry for the length of the post--guess I'm just soing my "stream-of-consciousness" thing again.
>
> You won't be afraid if you use your mind and think -
> Jim Kirk, Star Trek TOS
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Posts:
1,793
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Registered:
12/6/00
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(59 of 94)
Getting tired and ticked of starting over every time
Jun 17, 2003 3:42 AM
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You know, I was starting to write a nice long response to your criticism. I do appreciate the comments. However, on this thread I have already responded to several conservatives on the exact issues you raised, and on this thread you can see the dialogues. So, forgive me, but I find it a complete waste of time and energy to write everything out YET AGAIN just because you didn't read them. This is nothing personal, but I am a little irked when someone reads a post like this, notices a long and detailed discussion on the subject, spits out a couple of dicey points thinking he's got me against the wall, when all the while his answers have probably been answered somewhere in this thread. I guess that's what happens when someone comes in in the middle of a conversation.
I have already had several healthy conversations on many of the issues you raised--although they all were more polite than yours and did not resort to name-calling.
I have explained that this is liberalism as historical theory. Several posts are here on the subject. Feel free to read. I have never said liberalism is perfect, but I offer it as a theory, as would any other philosopher worth his salt. If you don't like the definitions I laid out, fine--let's discuss this rationally.
I have also gone to great lengths to explain Jesus as a liberal. If you are offended of me calling Hitler a conservative, well, Stalin was a liberal--are we even? I have explained why it is erroneous to call the fall of the USSR as the failing of an evil aggressive empire rather than the failures of socialism, and I have explained in detail how socialism is irrevocably woven into American society and it is necessary to recognize it as so.
Angry retaliation is seen as such. Believe me, whatever you try to spit in my face has been addressed somewhere on this thread. If you are here just to spit, you're just showing your true colors. But if you want to actually TALK about some of the things I mentioned, I would honestly love to.
I encourage you to peruse the rest of this thread before you further attack me with the same weak arguments I've already addressed. Difference of opinion is a wonderful thing. I appreciate it. But until today the conversation was genial, polite, yet critical and intelligent. I hope to resume the decorum.
So, please, as someone who has postulated a theory, I do hope you look over the rest of this thread, at the discussion that has followed.
If you have such great hate for liberalism, that's fine--I do hope you can find a way to criticize without resorting to the adolescent behavior the likes of NYRep and Octavius have brought forth.
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Posts:
1,793
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Registered:
12/6/00
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(60 of 94)
Jun 17, 2003 3:58 AM
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Not to be a pain in the arse. Not at all. But I'm trying to formulate in my own mind what you're trying to say. If your lack of a point is your way of forcing us to really think about this, I think that's pretty cool.
If you are presenting his words for us to juxtapose against our own senses of history, there are plenty of tragic nuances (I HATE using the word irony) to be found. It shows a man in deep conflict with himself, wanting to be a devout man and wanting to do God's work, but looking for a way to fit his prejudices in with His message.
You also presented some of the very terms I used to define conservativism.
If all that was your point, I think I got it.
If it wasn't, I feel utterly stupid for now having to ask you what you meant.
Either way, thank you.
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