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Posts:
1
Registered:
4/24/04
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(1 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 7:10 AM
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I have never posted anything here before, but I was absolutley disgusted with this one post that I had to say something. Is this what American is becoming? Is this what we are teaching our children? To hate and discriminat against someone who is not like them, labelling an entire gruop of people as murderers, rapists and terrorists. I hope this isn't what this great nation is becoming. This message was posted by Americanpride you evidently is a highschool kid. I hope that I am not the only one that feels that this is not what our country stands for. Read below.....
"The so-called Arab 'World' for the latter half of the 20th century and straight up until today has despised this country - you, me, your brothers and sisters. There are a great many people in that region who, without hesitation, would slit your throat, murder your brothers, and rape your sisters. That is of no doubt - they are doing it now all over the Middle East and North Africa. Take a look at Sudan. Or pre-war Iraq. The Taliban, too. The Syrians and Iranians aren't too fond of the whole freedom thing either - abducting and murdering people who would speak out against the leaderships' actions. You'd be one of those chaps had you been living there, daring to question the actions of the leadership. In Saudi Arabia, your sisters would be forbidden to play with Barbie dolls and, had they been victims of crime, would be the ones imprisoned. In the Taliban's Afghanistan, had you had a beard too short, it would be offense enough to be put to death. A Canadian reporter in Iran last year was abducted and beaten by Iranian security services - they're not too fond of anyone who doesn't believe in dictatorial Islam. Surely, someone must fight that Evil. I would think that our nation, as the world's richest, most Free, and most powerful, should shoulder that burden. Who else could carry the weight and accept the sacrifices? Surely, we were never safe to begin with - but we can make ourselves safe by eliminating those who would threaten Freedom."
Or here:
http://boards.historychannel.com/threaded.jsp?forum=30016&thread=300011623&start=6&msgSeq=6
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Posts:
11,379
Registered:
10/26/02
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(2 of 60)
I'm awake - but I take it you're still dreaming?
Apr 24, 2004 7:45 AM
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Would you scream "this is not what America stands for" had this been 1944 and one identified the Evils of NAZI Germany?
Surely, any man who takes no action against Evil is just as guilty as the perpetrator of Evil. The Germans were destroyed because of it. Mark my words, if this same trend continues in the Middle East and Muslims fail in the same manner, Islam will surely be destroyed as well.
Fortune Favors the Brave
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Posts:
6,574
Registered:
1/30/03
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(3 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 9:32 AM
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with what Chris said? Nothing he said wasn't true.
He never said every single person in the Middle East hates us but the majority does. And it is nothing new - they have hated the West since the inception of Islam.
FightingFalcon - Cadet USAF
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. Horace
It's all gonna change in a hurricane of darkness and pain and acidic rain and promises that you won't do it again. Linkin Park
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13
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Posts:
184
Registered:
4/9/04
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(4 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 11:14 AM
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Nope wrong. This Canadian reporter that you are referring to is Maher Arar
who was deported from the United States to Syria not Iran as you stated. He was detained and tortured for 13 months in his homeland because he was accused of being a terrorist suspect in North America, NOT for being a westerner as you have stated. Canadian and American authorities are responsible for him being tortured not Syrians on the basis of racial and cultural stereotypes and prejudices like you have done. He is now sewing the Canadian government for racial profiling and what happened to him. Islam is not the greatest Evil, but IGNORANCE or minpulation of facts, like you have done. I know that you are young, and you seem like a smart kid, but in university you will realize that there are two sides to every story. The West is NOT guilt free, and you will learn that with more education and I suggest you learn more about Islam. Here's my source regarding the tortured reporter.
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040423/NATS23-3//?query=arar
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Posts:
11,379
Registered:
10/26/02
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(5 of 60)
Nope - you have the wrong reporter...
Apr 24, 2004 11:22 AM
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"Zahra Kazemi, an Iranian Canadian, died as a result of a severe blow to the head on 10 July after her arrest in Tehran on 23 June, the Iranian authorities say."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3085551.stm
As a result of her death, Canada redrew it's envoy from Iran. I suppose Canadians are just as targetted overseas as Americans, eh? How about that for cultural sensitivity?
You said you are majoring in political studies, no?
>I suggest you learn more about Islam
I suggest you learn more about the Middle East.
Fortune Favors the Brave
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Posts:
816
Registered:
2/11/03
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(6 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 11:29 AM
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This is something that isn't new to the American way of thinking.
Check into the treatment of the American Indians all down through our history and it will most definitely show you that we are very good at discriminating against other races, esp. of they have something that we covet most sincerely. In there case, the land.
Today's feelings and actions are just a continuation of those same patterns, done up in a new form. All labeled under the heading of "Manifest Destiny."
Take care, S. Girty
Wars used to be called 'the sport of kings,' now it's called 'the sport of big business.
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Posts:
1,454
From:
Seattle
Registered:
3/5/02
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(7 of 60)
In 1944, the enemy wasn't the Germans, it was the Nazis
Apr 24, 2004 11:43 AM
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Propaganda always clearly id the enemy as the Nazi and not the Germany. FDR and others remembered WWI and the unintentional destruction of German-American culture in the US.
President Bush has done the same in the War on Terror. The enemy isn't Islam (which cannot be destroyed) nor the Arabs (most Muslims aren't Arab).
The enemy are men who use religous extremism as a stepping stone to the political power they seek. Or in some cases, they use religious extremism to stay in power.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way. -- John Paul Jones"
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Posts:
11,379
Registered:
10/26/02
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(8 of 60)
I haven't said otherwise -
Apr 24, 2004 11:49 AM
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However, regardless of our enemy in World War II, all of Germany paid the price. Dresden was leveled. Berlin was smashed. Millions of Germans perished - the whole country suffered.
Islam is following that same pattern - a few are molding the religion into their own liking, manipulating the masses. And the masses are following - is the man who permits Evil not as guilty as the man who perpetrates Evil? If the trend continues, they will suffer the same fate as Germany; guilty and innocent alike.
Fortune Favors the Brave
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Posts:
3,421
From:
Houston
Registered:
9/5/03
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(9 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 11:55 AM
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Calirod, the descriptions in the quote you provided are accurate. This is exactly how that culture is. If you don't like the way a culture conducts itself, do you favor misleading your children? Lie to them?
Wake up. The horrendous aspects described are actually the norm in the Islamic world.
We do not stand for any of the reprehensible norms practiced in the Islamic world. And, I also hope we stand for realism. If you pretend it doesn't exist, it doesn't just go away. You have to be a realist, and acknowledge facts.
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Posts:
840
Registered:
2/10/03
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(10 of 60)
you're just posting liberal nonsense Calirod...
Apr 24, 2004 7:00 PM
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wow, calirod. when it comes to defending arabs who believe in receiving 72 virgins in heaven after committing to their kill-christians-and-jews ideologies...you jump right on the ball to defend them. yet when it comes to defending the USA, you're silent. when many radical muslim schools preach salvation in heaven through suicide bombings to young children all over the middle east, again, you are absolutely silent. another thing, you say you denounce this type of "discriminating" and yet fail to point out where he may be wrong.
though i am a respecter of Islam in its absolute purest form, AmericanPride's post isn't completely far from the truth. the fact of the matter is, you've probably never stepped a foot outside the USA and you're just another lib who uses his/her big mouth to throw politically correct ideals out there.
i'm not saying ALL arabs are as Americanpride describes...but i think you know full well what he was saying.
"The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those who remain neutral in times of moral crisis." - Edmund Burke
"For every reaction, there has to be an action that precedes it. For every effect, there is a cause. For every movement, there is an unmoved Mover. And for every question, there is an answer. The Answer is The Truth. The Truth is The Way and the Only Way. Not only is He the Truth and The Way, He is also The Light, The Life, and The Resurrection."
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Posts:
1,639
Registered:
7/30/03
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(11 of 60)
Apr 24, 2004 9:11 PM
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Yes, wake up and read the following...
"Americans give more support to your enemy than anyone. Bickering, blaming your President, not supporting your own troops.Superpower? Hardly, at least your not acting like one. Your enemies aren't at each other's throats. America is a great nation but you Americans better get serious and remember who your enemy is and that they ARE your enemy and that will not change. Find them, kill them and win your war, then worry about your peace."
Francois
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Posts:
4,464
Registered:
7/4/03
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(12 of 60)
It's simply crude, ignorant racism. American Pride knows as much about Islam as he does about Nuclear Physics.
Apr 24, 2004 11:46 PM
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Substitute the words "Jew" and "Judaism" for "Arab" and "Islam" in AmericanPride's hate screed, and you have a high school Mein Kampf. Disgusting. His knowledge of Islam is not significantly different from zero. Where does he get such nonsense? Probably from a relative or talk radio moron who know as little as he does.
This is what Goebbels was talking about when he said it was easy to take a people to war: just fill their minds with fear and hatred and they will happily go to war with the other and believe any stereotype or agitprop you feed them.
Of course terrorists are evil. But they are not Islam, but a perversion of it and a small minority. By trying to make this into an anti-Islam crusade, AmericaPride is updating the white sheets of the KKK.
Yes, there is propaganda on both sides and hate speech does exist in disgraceful amounts in some parts of the Muslim world. We should all condemn that out of hand. But by no means are we at war with Islam. Or they with us. It is only the ignorants and the extremists who want it to be so.
We have many legitimate crticisms and beefs with Islam. And they have plenty of legitimate beefs and criticisms of us. That can play out through dialog and cooperation in time. We aren't going to kowtow to terorists ever, but with the vast majority of Muslims we do have common ground.
But pump up the fear and hatred, as Pride is trying to do, and there is nowhere to go but down.
What this really speaks to is a failure of moral education in America.
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Posts:
3,421
From:
Houston
Registered:
9/5/03
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(13 of 60)
Re: It's simply crude, ignorant racism. American Pride knows as much about Islam as he does about Nuclear Physics.
Apr 24, 2004 11:59 PM
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Everyone who has lived in the Middle East, raise your hand. (I seem to be the only one with my hand raised.)
So, I describe what I observed directly, and I am called a liar because it fits a description of the most reprehensible of philosophies to us.
I read the referenced quote, and from my personal experience, it appears to be accurate. I know it is difficult for you to accept. You think that Arab culture can't be that much different than any culture you see here, say in a small town in the midwest.
Did you know that killing a female child because she begins to show a little independence is common there? Read that again. I used the word "common." I suppose you probably don't believe this either.
Since you won't believe what people tell you who have lived there, then you MUST go live there yourself to be informed. (I guarantee you that you will see the same things I did.)
Yes, it is reprehensible, what we describe. But, it is the real world there. If you don't believe it, go see for yourself.
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Posts:
4,464
Registered:
7/4/03
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(14 of 60)
Apr 25, 2004 12:21 AM
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Have you ever heard of Shotgun weddings? What some Islamic hillbillies do does not invalidate the whoel culture. And the Christian World has killed far more people in the last 100 years than any other religion. Christians colonized and exploited Islamic Countries, nearly wiped out the Jews in Europe, Catholic Priests praised the murder of Serbs in Croatia, the list goes on and on.
Christian Culture has an ocean of blood on its hands. EVen inthe USA, Christians stole land from the natives, butchered them in massacres, and thanked god for sending plagues to kill the natives. Shall we even begin to go into slavery and Sotuh America's abuses(Protestants and Catholics).
Maybe we should ask Islam to help reform the West to make it less violent and dangerous to the world. We have no high horse to ride in our dealings with Islam.
Your anecdotal experiences, seen through the eyes of pure prejudice and lack of cultural contact or experience mean little or nothing. There is a range of lifestyles among Muslims. Some are very modern indeed.
We cannot impose our values and we have no moral superiority to force them to become like us. They willhave to wrestle with Modernity adn the West for themselves and come to their own solutions. I know they can since they already have in many places, such as Qatar.
Islam is 1.2 billion people, with huge diferences. They have real flaws and things I can't accept. Then again they don't have porno on their TV's and their little girls having their first sex at average age 15.
They could teach us a few things.
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Posts:
3,421
From:
Houston
Registered:
9/5/03
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(15 of 60)
Apr 25, 2004 1:10 AM
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Well, Lepi, I lived within the whole culture. Did you know that still in the Middle East, 3 of every 4 women have their vagina mutilated when they reach puberty. And, this is just one thing. There is so much more.
Again, if you do not want to believe what those who have been there tell you, go see for yourself.
Or, begin your posts with, "I am willfully ignorant. But, that doesn't prevent me from giving an ignorant opinion."
Lepi, you are the exact person I describe when I say that most people here think that the culture in the Middle East is like our culture here, but with Arabs. It is an entirely different culture. They do not have the same values as you. Go see.
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