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814
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(1 of 32)
I saw Michael Moore?s ?Fahrenheit 9/11? today. Here is my analysis of this disgusting film.
Jul 11, 2004 10:01 PM
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Well, what can I say, Michael Moore makes Leni Riefenstahl look honest. I did not see this movie for truth, but rather the entertainment value. What the film amounts to is a total propaganda piece in the form of anti-Americanism. It?s unvarnished filth.
Amid the ?oooh?s? and ?aaahh?s,? I couldn?t help but think that I was surrounded by a bunch of genuinely incompetent and sad individuals. For example, I did have one old hag sitting behind me. She was constantly spewing her anti-Bush drivel out loud, to the point where I finally turned around and gave her a look she?ll never forget. It certainly prompted her to maintain silence for the duration of the film. Pathetic wretch.
There were many lies put forth by Chubby Moore that demand a response, and that honor is mine.
First, Moore attempts to imbue in the minds of some of the goofballs watching this film with the idea that Gore without a doubt won Florida.
THE TRUTH: Gore did not win Florida. He is the only man in American to ever call the opposing candidate, offer a congratulations on victory, only to call back to abrogate his concession call. Worse yet, he attempted to have military votes discarded. And despite his claims to wanting a statewide recount, he had his lawyers demand ONLY a recount in heavily Democratic districts. He was hoping his political friends would come through for him by affording a few more ?votes? to him. In the end, Florida?s election laws had been violated and the Florida Supreme Court?s decision violated the United States Constitution. Recounts show that Bush won Florida. Even the LA Times has admitted this. Certainly no bastion of hardcore Conservatism. Moreover, Chubby Moore conveniently forgets to mention that certain networks called Florida in favor of Gore an hour prior to all polls closing in Florida!!! This cost Bush a significant number of votes inasmuch as this news prompted voters to leave the polling centers.
Moore blames Fox News in his little film for somehow costing Gore the election. Um, he also ?forgets? to mention that Fox News called the election before polls closed as well, in favor of none other than Al Gore! And the first network station to retract their declaration of Florida going in favor of Gore, was CBS. Oops, I?m sure this was just a minor oversight by Chubby.
Moore also argues that poor black people were disenfranchised by us wicked Republicans in Florida. The truth happens to be this: Democratic-run counties illegally permitted felons(who are Democrats?no surprise there) vote in the 2000 Presidential election. This was reported by the Miami-Herald.
Chubby Moore portrays Bush as a callous man uninterested in the lives of our troops.
THE TRUTH:
"As looting and sporadic firefights continued in and around the Iraqi capital, Bush and First Lady Laura Bush visited 40 wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and 33 others at Bethesda Naval Hospital, both in suburban Maryland just a short drive from the White House. One of the soldiers Bush visited was wounded in the fighting in Afghanistan." -- Chicago Tribune, April 12, 2003
"President Bush held a rare meeting Monday with families of fallen soldiers, spending close to two hours hugging and listening tearfully to survivors at a military base that has been among the nation's hardest hit by casualties in Iraq.
Bush met privately with 98 relatives of 26 lost soldiers after offering condolences and encouragement at a rally of 5,000 camouflage-clad, flag-waving military members and families from throughout Colorado. With the survivors grouped in four rooms, Bush autographed mementos as he heard the stories about their loved ones. One father told the president that his son "died for freedom," according to a Bush aide." -- WAPO, Nov 25, 2003
"White at Fort Polk, Bush also visited privately with families of troops who were killed in Iraq." -- The Washington Times, Feb 17, 2004
"Later Friday, Bush and first lady Laura Bush visited privately with soldiers and their families at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. It marked their third visit in six months to the Bethesda, Maryland, facility.
After the visit, Bush praised the soldiers for their "strong" spirit and "terrific" attitude.
"Several soldiers told me today, badly injured soldiers, that they want to get well quickly, and get back on their duty stations in Iraq," Bush said. "They want to serve our nation, and it's so refreshing and great to be here." -- CNN, March 20, 2004
Bush salutes badly injured Army Officer:
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/birdwell.htm
Bush jogging with serviceman who lost his leg in Afghanistan:
http://snopes.com/politics/bush/jogging.asp
Bush speaks to wife of Foreign Service officer:
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/yeskoo.htm
Chubby Moore, demonstrating exactly how petty he truly is, quibbles about Bush?s actions on September 11th while at that Sarasota Elementary school. True, Bush was told about a plane hitting one of the two Twin Towers before entering the classroom full of children. But there was NO hint of terrorism. Many had thought it was a small plane that had veered off course. It only became apparent that the nation was under attack when a second plane had struck the second tower. That is when Chief of Staff Andrew Card entered the classroom and whispered into Bush?s ear, that the second tower was hit by a plane and that the nation was under attack. Moore, in a particularly repugnant way, mocks Bush for spending seven more minutes in the classroom with the kids. What would Moore have wanted Bush to do?get up and leave the room in a hurried way, thus panicking the schoolchildren? Bush did the right thing by conducting himself in a composed manner. The principal of that Sarasota school has recently come out to say she will be voting for Bush, despite the fact that she is a registered Democrat. She said he performed impeccably that day. "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission and a former Democratic congressman from Indiana. Perhaps Moore should lay off the twinkies. The sugar isn?t helping the guy establish priorities. This is one of the pettiest arguments put forth in this repugnant film.
Moore talks about the Carlyle Group as if it means something. What he doesn?t mention is that the Bush Administration has canceled the United Defense?s $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system. Also not mentioned by Chubby Moore are the Carlyle Group?s numerous Democratic members, who were and still are partners or advisers.
The Bin-Laden family? What about them? Richard Clarke HAS ADMITTED that he alone authorized the departure of the Bin Laden family. They were afforded no special privileges. They were permitted to leave ON the day in which flights resumed in the United States. AND the FBI did screen those on board the planes which departed. Again, Richard Clarke has publicly stated this.
Chubby was opposed to the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yet in the movie he complains that sufficient forces were lacking in Afghanistan to apprehend Bin Laden. Keep in mind, Moore is the one who said after September 11th that Bin Laden should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
He babbles on and on about Saudi Arabia. He ignores the fact that Bush began a war in Afghanistan and Iraq?to which Saudi Arabia was opposed. You know, if that Saudi Royal Family is controlling Bush?s every move, they need to do a better job!
(Hey guys, did I mention that Michael Moore was not born in Flint, Michigan? He makes sure to repeat this claim in his film, and he decries the poverty-stricken town. Chubby Moore was really born in and raised in the wealthy, lily-white town of Davison, Michigan.)
In a rather insipid piece, Moore shows Bush on a golf course decrying acts of terror, only to then tell reporters to watch his swing. This is sheer sophistry in that it leaves people with the impression that Bush was referring to Al-Qaeda and its acts of terror against the United States. To what was he really referring? A Palestinian suicide-bomber?s attack in Israel. Chubby has no shame. Then again, with some of the dolts who swallow this propaganda whole, why tell the truth!
Now Chubby features Richard Clarke in his film. Bear in mind, the same Richard Clarke who authorized the Bin Laden family?s departure from the United States. In his movie, Moore unequivocally states that there were no connections between Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Yet it was Richard Clarke in 1998 who cited Iraqi-Qaeda connections in order to justify the Clinton bombing of an aspirin factory in Sudan. Coincidently, this was on the same day Monica was testifying. Furthermore, Janet Reno?s Justice Department issued an indictment of Al-Qaeda and Iraq for their cooperation. Chubby, are you hearing this, or are you still stuffing those twinkies down your throat?
Let?s consider Moore?s rant about that oil pipeline. Here is the truth as told by Michael Isikoff of Newsweek Magazine:
Consider Moore's handling of another conspiratorial claim: the idea that oil-company interest in building a pipeline through Afghanistan influenced early Bush administration policy regarding the Taliban. Moore raises the issue by stringing together two unrelated events. The first is that a delegation of Taliban leaders flew to Houston, Texas, in 1997 ("while George W. Bush was governor of Texas," the movie helpfully points out) to meet with executives of Unocal, an oil company that was indeed interested in building a pipeline to carry natural gas from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan.
The second is that another Taliban emissary visited Washington in March, 2001 and got an audience at the State Department, leaving Moore to speculate that the Bush administration had gone soft on the protectors of Osama bin Laden because it was interested in promoting a pipeline deal. "Why on earth would the Bush administration allow a Taliban leader to visit the United States knowing that the Taliban were harboring the man who bombed the USS Cole and our African embassies?" Moore asks at one point.
This, as conspiracy theories go, is more than a stretch. Unocal's interest in building the Afghan pipeline is well documented. Indeed, according to "Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to Sept. 10., 2001," the critically acclaimed book by Washington Post managing editor Steve Coll, Unocal executives met repeatedly with Clinton administration officials throughout the late 1999s in an effort to promote the project-in part by getting the U.S. government to take a more conciliatory approach to the Taliban. "It was an easy time for an American oil executive to find an audience in the Clinton White House," Coll writes on page 307 of his book. "At the White House, [Unocal lobbyist Marty Miller] met regularly with Sheila Heslin, the director of energy issues at the National Security Council, whose suite next to the West Wing coursed with visitors from American oil firms. Miller found Heslin...very supportive of Unocal's agenda in Afghanistan."
Coll never suggests that the Clintonites' interest in the Unocal project was because of the corrupting influence of big oil. Clinton National Security Council advisor "Berger, Heslin and their White House colleagues saw themselves engaged in a hardheaded synthesis of American commercial interests and national security goals," he writes. "They wanted to use the profit-making motives of American oil companies to thwart one of the country's most determined enemies, Iran, and to contain the longer-term ambitions of a restless Russia."
Whatever the motive, the Unocal pipeline project was entirely a Clinton-era proposal: By 1998, as the Taliban hardened its positions, the U.S. oil company pulled out of the deal. By the time George W. Bush took office, it was a dead issue-and no longer the subject of any lobbying in Washington. (Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force report in May, 2001, makes no reference to it.) There is no evidence that the Taliban envoy who visited Washington in March, 2001-and met with State Department and National Security Council officials-ever brought up the pipeline. Nor is there any evidence anybody in the Bush administration raised it with him. The envoy brought a letter to Bush offering negotiations to resolve the issue of what should be done with bin Laden. (A few weeks earlier, Taliban leader Mullah Omar had floated the idea of convening a tribunal of Islamic religious scholars to review the evidence against the Al Qaeda leader.) The Taliban offer was promptly shot down. "We have not seen from the Taliban a proposal that would meet the requirements of the U.N. resolution to hand over Osama bin Laden to a country where he can be brought to justice," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said at the time.
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Okay, we blew that Moore claim out of the water. How about Chubby?s skeptical view of that blacked out name in Bush?s National Guard records?
Well, Moore lies yet again. The Bush Administration was REQUIRED BY LAW to black out James R. Bath?s name. And Moore?s claims about Bath, the Saudis, Bin Laden, and Bush is sour grapes at its worst! Don?t believe me? Again, from Newsweek:
The use of innuendo is rife through other critical passages of "Fahrenheit 9/11." The movie makes much of the president's relationship with James R. Bath, a former member of his Texas Air National Guard who, like Bush, was suspended from flying at one point for failure to take a physical. The movie suggests that the White House blacked out a reference to Bath's missed physical from his National Guard records not because of legal concerns over the Privacy Act but because it was trying to conceal the Bath connection-a presumed embarrassment because the Houston businessman had once been the U.S. money manager for the bin Laden family. After being hired by the bin Ladens to manager their money in Texas, Bath "in turn," the movie says, "invested in George W. Bush."
The investment in question is real: In the late 1970's, Bath put up $50,000 into Bush's Arbusto Energy, (one of a string of failed oil ventures by the president), giving Bath a 5 percent interest in the company. The implication seems to be that, years later, because of this link, Bush was somehow not as zealous about his determination to bin Laden.
Leaving aside the fact that the bin Laden family, which runs one of Saudi Arabia's biggest construction firms, has never been linked to terrorism, the movie-which relied heavily on Unger's book-fails to note the author's conclusion about what to make of the supposed Bin Laden-Bath-Bush nexus: that it may not mean anything. The "Bush-Bin Laden 'relationships' were indirect-two degrees of separation, perhaps-and at times have been overstated," Unger writes in his book. While critics have charged that bin Laden money found its way into Arbusto through Bath, Unger notes that "no hard evidence has ever been found to back up that charge" and Bath himself has adamantly denied it. "One hundred percent of those funds (in Arbusto) were mine," says Bath in a footnote on page 101 of Unger's book. "It was a purely personal investment."
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Let?s see, Moore also lied about Congress Porter Goss in his film. Porter Goss does have a toll-free number. Will you apologize, Chubby, or are the twinkies still in your mouth?
What else?hmm, oh, Moore calls Iraq a sovereign nation under Saddam Hussein?a nation that never murdered any Americans. HA! I need not offer a refutation to that inane assertion.
In his film, Chubby Moore feigns respect and concern for our soldiers by showing injured troops at Walter Reed hospital. Earlier in the film, he portrayed our troops in Iraq as callous barbarians. But like I said, he then shamelessly exploits them at Walter Reed hospital. So what does the patriotic Chubby Moore think of our troops?
In a May 17 article of The Guardian, an interview with Michael Moore, here is what Moore said about our troops:
In a May interview with ?The Guardian,? Chubby says this: ?When you see the movie you will see things you have never seen before, you will learn things you have never known before. Half the movie is about Iraq?we were able to get film crews embedded with American troops without them knowing it was Michael Moore. They are totally f***ed.? Ahh, manipulating American soldiers. Add that to your already disgusting resume, chubby!
Here?s what he said on April 14th:
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win." Give him some credit for admitting he is a traitor!
What else did he say?
"I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe -- just maybe -- God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end." I wonder, for those of you who have seen this film, do you think Mr. Lipscomb, the woman who lost her son in Iraq, was aware that Chubby Moore said this? I somehow doubt it.
He lied about Bush and Veterans? hospitals, as well as military benefits. He lied about the Saudi wealth invested in the United States. He lied about Bin Laden-Bush connections. Another thing, all foreign embassies ARE guarded by the Secret Service. And that fundraiser in which Bush spoke of the ?have and have-more?s? was a fundraiser for healthcare programs for the Archdiocese of New York. They raised $900,000! Don?t expect Chubby to tell you these little facts, for it might require him to spit those twinkies out of his mouth!
Hey, you guys remember that Congressman running in the film? That was Representative John Tanner. Not only did he not know who the heck Moore was, but he was running to a vote, one in which he was late. But of course the master of mendacity portrayed this segment as a Congressman deliberately avoiding Moore?s queries. Also, in pure Goebbels-style propaganda, Moore excluded Representative Kennedy?s answer to Moore?s question on whether he would send his children to fight the war. Moore stopped the tape to make Kennedy look defensive and confused. The answer Kennedy gave was that his nephews were serving in the US Armed Forces and that his son was considering a career in the US Navy. Chubby, why do you withhold the truth from us?
Congressman Jim McDermott, a real wackjob, was featured in Moore?s film. It bears mentioning that this American-hater has terrorist connections. In fact, he even denounced America?s President on Iraqi soil!
For some reason, I recall Moore asserting that there was Independent Commission immediately after Pearl Harbor. Now someone correct me if I?m wrong, but there was no such Independent Commission. A Commission was formed when the war finished to investigate what went wrong in the lead up to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Someone tell me, am I wrong on that? Moreover, Moore does not mention Clinton?s refusal to take Bin Laden into custody when offered him by Sudan. I wonder, why does Moore not blame FDR as having advance knowledge Pearl Harbor?s bombing? FDR, too, received reports that Pearl Harbor was a target for the Japanese.
Moore cries about WMD. He seems to forget all the other people who said these weapons did exist in Iraq, and who the heck knows, they may be in another country today. But I can produce quotes from Jacques Chirac, Scott Ritter, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and other prominent Democrats if some so wish.
So, Michael Moore says Americans dumb. Well, he?s right about all of those people who applauded upon the film?s conclusion. It?s really disturbing in some ways. When people allow hate and prevarication to dictate their views, we have a problem. Honest disagreement on policy is one thing. Outright stupidity and blatant naivete are insufferable. Moore only gets away with this nonsense because he knows that many Americans suffer from mental idleness. They want to be told things instead of learning the facts on their own. The truth is this, Moore believed we deserved the attack on September 11th. He has since called the US a terrorist nation. He said that Americans deserve to die. He has said Osama Bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty. The list goes on. We?re speaking about a putrid individual here. It is a shame we have people like him out there attempting to criminalize an American President in a time of war. The Left hates George Bush more than they hate our enemies?enemies, mind you, that will happily behead all of us, regardless of party affiliation. When Hezbollah promotes Moore?s film, and even offers to distribute it throughout the Middle East, that just says it all right there. Chubby Moore and his obsequious zombies should keep in mind that they are lambasting an American President keeping their butts safe. This, over a man like John Kerry, who recently told Larry King he hasn?t had time for terror briefings. Moore is not anti-Bush. He?s anti-American. And I happily declare all of his supporters just the same. The time for jokes are over. The time for an earnest understanding of the threat we face is here. And that?s why I?m voting for George Bush come November. I expect all sane American to do exactly that.
And that?s all I have to say.
A GREAT SITE LISTING EVERY MOORE LIE IN THE FILM:
http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/
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Posts:
715
Registered:
4/13/04
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(2 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 11, 2004 10:33 PM
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A note on the Gore/Florida issue.
Firstly, there was a suspicious computer glitch in one county that resulted in a false reading of 16,000 extra votes for Bush. This made it seem to the Gore camp that there was no possibility that Bush had not won the state. After the glitch was discovered, the Gore camp realized the race was far closer than they had been led to believe. This accounts for Gore's initial concession and his subsequent retraction thereof. It also aroused the suspicions of the Democrats about the validity of the Florida election results.
"I'd get a knife, come up behind you and slit your throat from behind. I'd want to watch you die and try to stop the torrent of blood." - FightingFalcon
"Fool me once, shame on ? shame on you. Fool me ? you can't get fooled
again" ? George W. Bush
"Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling." ? George W. Bush
"I am not a crook" - Richard M. Nixon
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." - Dan Quayle
"It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking stripes on it and still be home by Christmas." - Ronald Reagan
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Posts:
9,416
From:
Lake Pend O'reille
Registered:
2/15/04
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(3 of 32)
Wow...what do you do in your spare time?
Jul 11, 2004 10:37 PM
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You really have the republican neocon talking points down pat.
I also see you didn't go into the movie with an open mind.
Comparing Leni Riefenstahl to Michael Moore is a slam on Leni Riefenstahl. She was a great film maker, unfortunately her subject matter has left her in disrespute. Moore is no Leni Riefenstahl and few following her will be.
I'll have to take some time dissecting your review since you obviously have more spare time on your hands than I do.
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814
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6/5/04
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(4 of 32)
Re: Wow...what do you do in your spare time?
Jul 11, 2004 10:45 PM
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Actually, Randy, I have little spare time. Which is why I began writing this post at 12:30. Took me a little over an hour. I was watching tv at the same time! And luckily, I type fast. These days I usually post articles because I don't have time to write posts like this one. But I think that Moore's film needs to be addressed, so that's what I did for the last hour. Don't worry, I'll get to your reply on my Conservatism vs. Liberalism post tomorrow.
And yes, I went into the theatre with an open mind. However, an open mind is not an empty mind. I read up on the film before I saw it. Thus I had the facts already, which made Moore's film the filth it is. Those other crazies in the theater didn't have the facts, which is why they are so easily manipulated into believing things.
Take care.
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Posts:
621
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8/21/03
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(5 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 11, 2004 10:59 PM
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For example, I did have one old hag sitting behind me. She was constantly spewing her anti-Bush drivel out loud, to the point where I finally turned around and gave her a look she'll never forget. It certainly prompted her to maintain silence for the duration of the film. Pathetic wretch.
Kids now don't have any respect for the elderly! She could have been any one of our mother or grandmother, you're talking about and calling names. You've stoop to a real low intimidating senior citizens dude!
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814
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(6 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 11, 2004 11:04 PM
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Please, save it, NH. My grandparents are senior citizens, and patriotic ones at that. This old hag didn't keep the trapper shut. Arrogant and full of herself. Her husband just sat there like a dope. I simply humbled her. It worked.
Take care.
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Posts:
621
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(7 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 11, 2004 11:17 PM
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Come on mario, imagine you're grandparents in the front of the line at the store. They're taking their time counting out the 100 pennies they saved for prescription cost; since bush forebid them to get cheaper drugs from canada. And some self-absorbed kid is starring them down because he felt a little inconvenient. Now, wouldn't you want to knock his block off for making you're grandparents feel a little uncomfortable! sure you would!
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814
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(8 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 11, 2004 11:31 PM
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Oh come on, NH. First off, Bush forbade nothing. It is a good thing that we don't have drug reimportation with Canada, and I will get into that issue with CRW as our discussion progresses on this thread. Hey man, the lady was right behind me! She didn't keep quiet and when she saw a crowd of Americans waving the Falg at a Bush rally, she said they were "dummied." I'm a decent guy for the most part, but she hit my last nerve. Her husband didn't put her in her place, so I did the honor. Gave her a stare that sealed his trapper shut, and it thankfully stayed that way for the rest of the film. I've had enough of these big-mouthed, know-nothings. She had no business calling any other person dumb. Because let me tell you, she was applauding every lie in that movie. Talk about dumb. Moore was right, some Americans are dumb. She's proof positive. Only problem is, I don't think she'll ever realize it.
Take care, buddy.
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621
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(9 of 32)
Re: I saw Michael Moore's
Jul 12, 2004 12:16 AM
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See mario, you were upset because she didn't share you're political views. now if this was a film about Clinton and Monica, and she was waving the american flag, and saying "impeach Clinton": would you have cared? Of course not but since she was for everything you were against, you felt the need to intimidate the poor lady. Shame on you! Mario leave the senior citizens alone, please. Do me a favor, go to the movies in Harlam and tell the loud obnoxious black man to stop talking during the show, I dare ya! LOL!Just messing with ya! Be cool mario!
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Posts:
4,464
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(10 of 32)
At least you saw it. Otherwise, a low point for you.
Jul 12, 2004 1:29 AM
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The misanthrope has movie money.
An example of Mr. C's humanity: "For example, I did have one old hag sitting behind me. She was constantly spewing her anti-Bush drivel out loud, to the point where I finally turned around and gave her a look she'll never forget. It certainly prompted her to maintain silence for the duration of the film. Pathetic wretch."
Not only does Mr. C have it in for "hags" -- "older ladies" for the rest of us -- he takes some kind of macho pride in intimidating an old woman. A "pathetic wretch" in his estimation.
This is a deeply unhappy and maladjusted young man, full of anger and hatred for others, seeking to intimidate who? Old Women. It's really says something about his own weakness and desire to be somehow more than what he is, steeped in his own self-loathing.
Not a lovely self-portrait.
And then he gets his facts all wrong.
1)Gore won the popular vote and add in the real voters kicked out by false felon rolls in Florida, and he's prez. Fairest recount showed a Gore Win.
2)Bush has not attended a single funeral for any soldier killed in Iraq.
3)Bush, after learning of the greatest terror attack in US history, stayed in a classroom for more than seven aimless minutes reading "my Pet Goat." Only a deranged incompetent wouldn't immediately take leave of the room and attend to the mortal danger facing America. And only a deaf dumb and blind follower of Bush would even ATTEMPT to excuse this incredible lapse. It's shocking.
4) Richard Clarke was asked by someone IN THE WHITE HOUSE to let those planes go. HE can't remeber who. That is called INFLUENCE. And several planes were allowed to leave full of Arabs and Bin Laden family members, one of whom has had suspicons raised about him. They should have been kept and questioned, a few were gone over briefly. many were not questioned at all: the Bush's asked Clarke to let them leave ASAP.
Given the need to check for any collusion or confederates of the 9/11 plot this was an insane dereliction of duty. Clarke is simply wrong in dismissing it.
Why? Saudis have bought deep influence from the Bush's for years, even helping to start Dubya's first business. Through all kinds of lobbying firms, teh carlyle group -- the contract was cancelled to that company AFTER it was sold by the Carlyle group! Inside info?
Saudis buy Dems and GOPers, but most especially the Bush's. They are deeply in bed with the Saudis. IF there are bought Dems, and ther eare, that makes the Bush favoritism towards the Saudis and bought GOP people OK?
I think you can see Mr. C' totally faulty "analysis."
5)"Leaving aside the fact that the bin Laden family, which runs one of Saudi Arabia's biggest construction firms, has never been linked to terrorism"
This is a false statement. One of Bin Laden's brothers is deeply involved in some questionable charities and should have been detained for further questioning. He was in fact, under observation by the CIA/FBI.
Mr. C is simply Wrong.
6)"Congressman Jim McDermott, a real wackjob, was featured in Moore's film. It bears mentioning that this American-hater has terrorist connections. In fact, he even denounced America's President on Iraqi soil!"
HoHoHoo!!!! SO now you see American Congressman with ties to terrorists! IS there no limit to your paranoia? Commies and terorists under the beds!!!!! If you start calling even Congressman terrorists, how are we ever going to find the real ones? Get a grip.
7)"Moore is not anti-Bush. He's anti-American. And I happily declare all of his supporters just the same."
The exact opposite is true: Moore is trying to wake up the country he loves and he sees its greatness as well as its real and damaging flaws. He is not a mindless saluter of silly homilies, like the right who refuse to see reality, follow only fears and violence, and haven't the decency or common sense to know that when they a have created a mess in Iraq, it is time for reflection, apolgias, and a review of the facile stupidities, blatantly false premise they pushed, and the lies they tell and retell to the troops and the people.
They don't love or support the troops, they love and support war and the right wing. The troops are just another item for them to wave in the air to show how patriotic they are, like fetish objects. The troops real lives, difficulties, costs, terrors --and the responsibility not to waste those precious lives unless a war in unavoidable and necessary hardly even registers a flicker in the hateful and seething mind of the dark and respectless right wing.
They see only enemies, only fighting, only war. They lead blindly, and deny the conflicts of interest behind the wars the regular folks have to fight (remember George W. Bush ducked out of Vietnam --rich kids didn't have to fight, I guess), they need enemies they way most people need friends.
And they have created new enemies for us in every corner of the globe, people like Dubya and his minions have sunk our name and reputations lower than at any time in our history. 40% of Canadians say America is EVIL. CANADA!??! It is THAT BAD. Lies and imperialism will get you that, surprise, surprise.
The Right's love of power, military force, their use of fear and suspension of human rights, their bullying, accusations, insults, and lies to the citizenry and the world know no bounds and no decency. Even traditional GOP politicians like George Will and otehrs are recoiling in horror at the extremist right wing, hyper-religious, ignorant, mayberry machiavellis running this country into the ground, economically and diplomatically.
If they are not stopped, they will sow destruction and death and disaster from one end to the globe to the other. They are that dangerous, and that out of control.
Pathetic wraiths like Mr. Conservative are the dark spawn of GOP lies and propaganda unchallenged for years that poisons and helps destroy young minds at a time of lack of self confidence and unhappiness. It takes away their ability to feel. And replaces it with arrogant hatred, which work with their limitless ignorance to create the coulterites, like the brown shirts of old.
FOR THE FATHERLAND! DEFEAT THE COSMOPOLITANS WHO HATE THE NATION!
Right out of the Goebbels songbook.
But, at least he SAW the film! There may be a flicker of hope for him.
We can't say. But we CAN say that truth and Mr. Conservative are completely and thoroughly unacquainted.
Moore Stands Tall.
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Posts:
6,970
Registered:
12/26/99
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(11 of 32)
Jul 12, 2004 1:46 AM
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Does your argument really have ANYTHING to do with the thesis of this post?? Your disdain for any modification of a Senior CVitizens behavior regardless of how obnoxious it may be is well noted. Now, anything else about the debate at hand, or is your self righteousness a ruse????
Beware the Pale Horse for the rider is death! And hell is coming with him!
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Posts:
6,970
Registered:
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(12 of 32)
Jul 12, 2004 1:51 AM
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I am getting dizzy. Concotions often do that to me. Get over 2000 you lost! If Gore was a true leader he would have done what Nixon did in 1960! He knew he was cheated it was clear, voter fraud all over the place. What did he do?? He ate it. For the good of the country he swallowed the jagged pill. Gore kept the country hanging because it just couldnt be. He behaved badly and now there are an enormous numbers of stories available to explain away his behavior.
Beware the Pale Horse for the rider is death! And hell is coming with him!
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Posts:
6,970
Registered:
12/26/99
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(13 of 32)
Jul 12, 2004 2:01 AM
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You seem to believe that it is paranoia that there could be any deviant people within American Government. The Truman Administration thought the same thing in the 1940's. Then HUAC uncovered the fact that the State Department was crawling with anti-establishment communists. See: Alger Hiss...
How does that adage go about doomed to repeat it???
Beware the Pale Horse for the rider is death! And hell is coming with him!
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Posts:
621
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8/21/03
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(14 of 32)
Jul 12, 2004 2:45 AM
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But I knew Lepi was going to tear this post apart (like she always does) and why should I waste my time when she does such a better job. But since you insist!
mario:In a rather insipid piece, Moore shows Bush on a golf course decrying acts of terror, only to then tell reporters to watch his swing. This is sheer sophistry in that it leaves people with the impression that Bush was referring to Al-Qaeda and its acts of terror against the United States. To what was he really referring? A Palestinian suicide-bomber's attack in Israel. Chubby has no shame. Then again, with some of the dolts who swallow this propaganda whole, why tell the truth!
Mario, this was one of the funniest part of the movie. Moore shows how bush can from one moment, seem concern about a serious situation: to the point where he's seems sincere and serious, to almost uncaring and candid about the situation. Sort of like the time he made fun of not finding the WMDs at the press banquet (with the slide projector). Moore did a excellent job in showing that Bush is a great showman! To take him serious is a joke. This scene proves this. Moore didn't have to splice the film or anything. It was hilarious! By saying "now watch this swing" , it was as if he was saying "forget what I just said, check this out!"
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Posts:
544
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4/23/04
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(15 of 32)
Jul 12, 2004 3:23 AM
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What the film doesn't show is that many examples like that occured when Bill Clinton was in office and on the golf course.
Todays media want a quick soundbite so that they can show it on the news and then go off to the next story.
You are very sadly deluded if you think Bush is the only President or Prime Minister to have given a quick soundbite to the media and then gone about what they were actually doing at the time.
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