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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(1 of 53)
Apr 14, 2008 3:13 PM
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I'm just curious as to how people feel about witchcraft and Pagan beliefs, mainly Wicca.
How many of you know enough about the religion to be able to make judgment calls?
I will watch this thread to see others views and I will try to answer questions and correct common misconceptions.
Please remember, however, that every Pagan follows their path in different ways, and are free to have personalized beliefs. Wicca is not an organized religion, so I am only speaking for myself. My views may not reflect the views of someone else who is Pagan.
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Posts:
1,793
From:
ailuroland
Registered:
4/25/05
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(2 of 53)
Apr 14, 2008 7:34 PM
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I am a solitary practitioner of Wicca. I find it rather interesting that most of the other Wiccans I know were raised Catholic.
Cat
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(4 of 53)
Apr 14, 2008 11:42 PM
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With a name like godsmackgrl13 I assume you believe in the existence of a god. Which god would that be?
My general impression of witchcraft is that it evolved from the ancient practices of shaman medicine men and women who used herbs, potions, chants, dances, incantations, and many other practices to try to cure people of their illnesses.
I would be interested in learning what supernatural forces you believe exist, and how they are supposed to relate to mortal humans.
Tellurian
I believe in the Universe and the energies flowing around us. I believe that every single thing, be it a rock, a bird, or the wind has invisible energies contained within it.
As for what happens when we die, I believe that our energies are released and recycled. I suppose it could be described as reincarnation.
I can't say that I believe in a god per say, but I'm not totally skeptical to the opinion that there could be a supreme being out there somewhere.
As long as I can remember, I was able to 'feel' the energies emanating from all the things that make up the world. As I grew older, I began to be able to see the energies of living things. I believe they are called auras. I do not see them clearly as some books describe, but just a very slight disturbance in the atmosphere.
I was raised Lutheran, but can't say that I ever really believed in the Christian God. As soon as I was old enough to rebel against my parents, I stopped going to church.
After doing some research on other religions, I stumbled into Pagan religions and thought that it described my beliefs the best, so I tell people I'm Pagan.
I can't say I do a lot of spellwork. I do on occasion, but usually just ride out my problems under my own steam.
I'm not sure if what I believe is even a religion. I have just always followed what I know.
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Edited by godsmackgrl13 at 04/14/2008 11:43 PM
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Edited by godsmackgrl13 at 04/14/2008 11:45 PM
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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(5 of 53)
Apr 15, 2008 12:13 AM
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Thanks for the information gg13.
If you have not noticed already, there are several pagans and believers in reincarnation on these boards.
The energies that you feel, do they feel different for different sources, or do all the energies feel the same?
Do you see the recycling of the energy to be just the recycling of energy, or do you see a conscious being recycled also?
Is there one type of Paganism that you relate to more closely than others?
If you stopped being a Lutheran, then it seems that you don't always follow what you know, which shows that you are actually a freethinker.
Tellurian
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"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the ruler as useful" Seneca the Younger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLIKAyzeIw4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY&feature=related
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Posts:
457
From:
Phoenix
Registered:
7/30/07
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(6 of 53)
Apr 15, 2008 2:21 AM
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I just figure that Wiccan and modern paganism is nothing like the religions in the past before Christianity was forced upon people.
I see modern paganism as trying to collect a bunch of old beliefs or what was left of them and putting them together into a new religion. Some of the beliefs put together might be from two oppossing pagan groups that used to be enemies. But since their religions were virtually destroyed by Christianity, that those trying to recover them don't realize that such beliefs may have been in opposition in the past or from opposing groups in the past.
When it comes to recovering specifically English or Irish pagan religions, to me, it seems more like the beliefs of 4-5 different ethnic groups, or what's left of them, piled into one, adding in other aspects like Egypt or Greek which didn't entirely have to do with the English/Irish pagan religions. So in the past there would have been lets say....
Group 1: Cavemen group worshipping wild horses in the afterlife
Group 2: Red Heads excarnating their dead and worshipping Gaia (mother earth) and the Vulture goddess
Group 3: Galli-Gaelics who would have also worshipped Gaia and a serpent goddess of medicine and other deities
Group 4: Melitei (not entirely sure of their pagan religion)
Group 5: English speaking groups (from Germanic language family) who seemed to have worshipped another set of pagan goddesses, and seems to be tied to trees, circles and stuff like that
Then all 5 groups had their history destroyed and their religions destroyed. What's left has been lumped into a new pagan religion which isn't like the original 5 religions. And in addition, a new set of foreign beliefs are added in...like modern ideas of Egyptian religions and so forth.
It's interesting that some of the people are saying that a lot of Wiccans used to be Catholic. Whenever I try to figure out origins of pagan beliefs, I try to study Catholicism in different areas of the world. Catholicism attempted to stamp out pagan beliefs, but in many places, the pagan beliefs sort of won out.
For example, in the mountains of Ragusa the Catholics there worship "the Madonna of the Snow". Obviously, Mary in Bethlehem didn't have any snow. So what happened was that the pagans in the area previously had their "Winter Goddess of the Snow" and when Catholicism was forced upon them, they refused to give her up. Somehow their Winter Goddess changed to the Madonna of the Snow.
Another example would be the Yacqui Indians. They used to have a pagan spring festival of the deer. When Catholicism was forced upon them, they refused to give up their spring festival. Now instead, they do a "Jesus deer dance", where one of the tribe members contends to be Jesus wearing a deer mask doing a deer dance for Easter.
So previous pagan beliefs can still be deciphered in some cases by some of the odd things that they do with regards to region and Catholicism. But in other regions, people trying to recover them have botched them and mixed them with other groups.
MapMistress
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Posts:
689
From:
Illinois
Registered:
10/20/06
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(7 of 53)
Apr 15, 2008 7:58 AM
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"I find it rather interesting that most of the other Wiccans I know were raised Catholic."
I wasn't and most of the pagans I know (some of whom identify themselves as Wiccan) weren't raised Catholic. Of course, the group I associate with are pretty much solitaries.
"Wiccan" as it is currently presented really started in the 1950s with Gerald Gardner. Part of his system is based on older traditions, but much is just plain made up. Much of what has been introduced since is based on modern ideas and syncreistic adoption of pieces of other traditions, especially from South and East Asian and Native American systems. The plain fact is that we know almost nothing about the beliefs and practies of non-Christian peoples of Pre-Christian Europe...and very little about anyone else's from before the 1800s, when anthropologists began documenting, however poorly, the beliefs of native peoples.
That said, it's not really surprising to find that Catholicism has much in common with European-background paganism. The Romans started the process by merging/identifying their own pantheon with the pantheons of groups they occupied. The Catholic church continued the practice by hijacking every major pagan celebration and putting a Church spin on it: Saturnalia becomes Christmas/New Year's; The yule log and the 12 days, etc., are incorporated into that holy season; They hardly even bothered to change the name of the vernal equinox celebration, Easter, and its symbols, but attached it to the story of the resurrection; Samhain became All Hallows Eve, along with the All Saints and All Souls days; and so on.
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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(8 of 53)
Apr 15, 2008 12:44 PM
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The energies that you feel, do they feel different for different sources, or do all the energies feel the same?
The energies differ depending on the individual for me. This doesn't happen with all people, but people that I am close to and know very well, I can tell who walked in the room without looking by feeling their energy.
I can tell my pets apart by their energy, but most strange dogs and animals that I've had no contact with feel mostly the same with slight variances depending on their personality and energy level. It is the same story with trees.
Non-living material, like rock, have a lot less energy output than living things, and I cannot see the energy of non-living things.
Do you see the recycling of the energy to be just the recycling of energy, or do you see a conscious being recycled also?
I believe that just the energy is recycled. It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll try with an example:
A dog dies. As its body deteriorates, it's energy is released into the ground or harvested by other creatures that may eat it. Something else eats the grass or a creature which feasted on the dog, gaining some of that energy. A robin, which ate a fly that had feasted on the dead dog as a maggot, mates with another robin, and lays eggs. The chicks within the eggs contain the mixed energies of the mom and dad, which also contains the energy of the dog.
I don't know if it makes sense to anyone but me, but that's the best example I can think of.
Is there one type of Paganism that you relate to more closely than others?
I'm actually not that knowledgeable of the different pagan religions. I know quite a bit about Wicca, but I disagree with other Wiccans that I have met on the importance of rituals among other things.
I thought that I had the most in common with Druidism, but I don't know any other Druids to learn more about the religion other than what I've read.
If you stopped being a Lutheran, then it seems that you don't always follow what you know, which shows that you are actually a freethinker.
I suppose I could have phrased that better. I follow what my heart tells me to do, not what path I am told to follow by others.
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(10 of 53)
Apr 15, 2008 11:40 PM
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Your Paganism seems to exist without the need for a god. Your descriptions of the energy in nature remind me of Pantheism. Do you see your sensing of the energies as being like the Pantheism described at the following sites:
Thank you very much for those links! I had never heard the term Pantheism before, but it is the best description of my beliefs that I have run across yet!
That is exactly how I feel. The energies (divinity) is in everyone and everything.
You mention Druidism. Are referring to the ancient Druid practices and beliefs, or are you referring to the new Druids?
I'm leaning more towards the new Druids. All the books and sites I read about Druidism were talking about the neo-druids. Basically all I know about them is that they are the nature-worshipers....more so that Wiccans.
I confess that I have never taken the time to read up on much more than Wicca. I've never really cared much either way about religion.
In all honesty, I don't even know why I started this thread. It was a spur-of-the moment thing that something inside me told me to do. Maybe I will discover that there is some answer I was seeking, even though I don't know the question I am asking yet.
You say you follow your heart. Have you always found that to be a trustworthy path?
I, like anyone, have made some bad decisions, but I believe that my life has turned out great in the long run. I have been happy more than sad, and have never been in real trouble.
I believe that we are all our own gods. We make our own decisions and the consequences of those decisions are our own responsibility, not the fault of a god.
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Edited by godsmackgrl13 at 04/15/2008 11:42 PM
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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(11 of 53)
Apr 16, 2008 8:57 AM
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gg13
Yes, curiosity is a good thing. I have lots of it myself. I feel sorry for those people who just accept and believe whatever they are told to believe without ever questioning anything.
Since you see yourself and everyone else as our own gods, do you relate to a particular type of god more than to others? Are you like a creator god who creates new things, or are you a Greek type of pleasure-seeking god, or are you a Nordic type of god who struggles against life's challenges, or are you a Semitic type of authoritarian god who punishes those who do not obey, or are you a different style of god?
Accepting the results of your own decisions sounds like a very sensible outlook to have. It is much more realistic than feeling like you are being rewarded or punished by some invisible external force on an arbitrary basis.
Do you find many people in Nebraska who think the way you do, or do you find yourself to be unique in your locale?
Tellurian
--
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the ruler as useful" Seneca the Younger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLIKAyzeIw4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY&feature=related
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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(12 of 53)
Apr 16, 2008 4:08 PM
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Since you see yourself and everyone else as our own gods, do you relate to a particular type of god more than to others? Are you like a creator god who creates new things, or are you a Greek type of pleasure-seeking god, or are you a Nordic type of god who struggles against life's challenges, or are you a Semitic type of authoritarian god who punishes those who do not obey, or are you a different style of god?
I would say that I'm like the Greek-type god, Pan, who is light-hearted and very passionate about life. I love music and to dance, as well as nature and all creatures that make the world their home. I am creative and love to learn, and I am very positive.
If you don't know of Pan, the Celtic god Kernunnos is similar to Pan.
Do you find many people in Nebraska who think the way you do, or do you find yourself to be unique in your locale?
Nebraska is composed mainly of Christians. In my area, they are mostly Lutherans, and they are not very tolerable of my views. I tend to stay quiet here and keep my head low, because I have had vandals at my house and numerous threats, because many people take that passage "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" seriously.
When I lived in Texas at Fort Hood for four years, they were more tolerable. Members of the Fort Hood Circle would debate with me on views, but they were always nothing but polite in their questionings. There was a certain preacher called Jack Harvey that caused a big fuss, but I mainly just ignored him. You quit feeding fuel into the fire, the fire will eventually die.
The biggest stand Jack Harvey ever made was in 1999, so I had a hard time digging up a good article about it, but his views on witchcraft are very clear.
March Against Witchcraft
I'm moving to North Carolina in about a month, because my husband is being re-stationed to Fort Bragg, so we'll see how acceptable it is there.
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Edited by godsmackgrl13 at 04/16/2008 4:09 PM
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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(13 of 53)
Apr 16, 2008 5:48 PM
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gg13
When you were at Fort Hood did that preacher still have as much support for his anti-witch crusade as was described in your link? I wonder what happened when kids went dressed as witches to his house trick or treating on Halloween.
If you see yourself as being like Pan, then you seem to be a fun type of witch. Is your husband Wiccan also? Isn't going to North Carolina like jumping from the frying pan into the fire? Somehow I doubt you will find the people there to be very open and friendly toward witches. The only good thing I can think of regarding the southern "hospitality" toward non-christians is that it is not as bad there as South Carolina. Perhaps they would be less hostile toward Pantheists.
It is interesting how many Christians talk about how the early Christians were such brave heroes and martyrs to stand for their beliefs against popular opinion, then they turn around and persecute non-christians the same way the early Christians were persecuted.
I hope it all goes well for you. Have you ever lived in that area before?
Tellurian
--
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the ruler as useful" Seneca the Younger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLIKAyzeIw4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY&feature=related
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Posts:
38
From:
Nebraska
Registered:
4/14/08
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(14 of 53)
Apr 16, 2008 11:11 PM
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When you were at Fort Hood did that preacher still have as much support for his anti-witch crusade as was described in your link?
He caused a bit of a fuss here and there, but it was like listening to a 5-yr-old crying because mommy wouldn't buy him some candy.
He has settled down a lot, because it was pretty much the whole of the Fort Hood area against his little church.
Is your husband Wiccan also?
No. I thing agnostic would describe him best. He really don't care for religion either way.
Isn't going to North Carolina like jumping from the frying pan into the fire?
I have no choice in the matter. The Army is stationing my husband there, so I go too. Around the post it shouldn't be too bad, because there is such a diversity of religion on Army posts. It makes everyone a little more tolerable.
It is interesting how many Christians talk about how the early Christians were such brave heroes and martyrs to stand for their beliefs against popular opinion, then they turn around and persecute non-christians the same way the early Christians were persecuted.
The funny thing about that is that everyone can complain about being persecuted at some point. Pagans were persecuted during the Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials. Muslims have been heavily persecuted throughout all history. Blacks were persecuted and still can be in certain areas. I find that Hispanics are highly persecuted, depending on where you are. Christians were persecuted in the past, and still are today by some.
I just tend to turn a deaf ear to anyone trying to mock me or shove their religion down my throat. Like I said before, if you do not give fuel to the fire, it will die out.
Have you ever lived in that area before?
I went to basic training in South Carolina and AIT in Virginia. Never have been to North Carolina, though.
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Posts:
6,154
From:
Urth
Registered:
10/20/03
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