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Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 28, 2007 9:02 AM
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Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
It seems that no one dares question the immorality of Israeli actions. America has been beating down sanctions in the U.N. against Israel for a generation. What the Israeli have done to the Palestinian and Lebanese people would be condemned if they had been done by any other government on earth, except Israel. Why do you think that is?
--
Some of my heroes are Eric Hoffer, Bucky Fuller, Robert Pirsig, Walt Whitman, Michael Harrington, Peter Drucker, Dixie Chicks, Amy Goodman, Stan Musial, Eva Cassidy, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., Rocky Marciano, Max Ehrmann and Earl Nightingale.
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Re: Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 28, 2007 1:27 PM
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Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
Probably be because when Iran gets 'the bomb' she will expect Israel to sacrifice herself by taking Iran out before she goes up in a mushroom cloud!
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From:
maine
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1/28/07
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Re: Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 28, 2007 4:04 PM
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Are all Americans afraid to question Israel?
I think you're focusing on the efforts of the AIPAC lobby in DC which is probably the most powerful political lobby in the nation today. This powerful lobby goes largely unnoticed by many Americans who also wonder, like you, why we are so Israel-friendly. It's not that Americans are afraid to question Israel. It's that too much poweful behind-the-scenes lobbying goes on in DC with AIPAC for Americans to notice what is really going on.
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May 28, 2007 7:19 PM
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It claimed a piece of ground abandoned by the Brits and legally conceeded to then in post WW1 treaties. There was never a Palestine. Palistine is a modern catch word to include tribes which migrated over arid land which would support no human life until Israel claimed it. Generations of lefties supported the "emerging" countries in Africa during the 60's and 70's which were created at the point of a gun or worse but somehow lefties have managed to camouflage their anti-semitism by questioning Israel's right to survive after more than half a century.
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Re: Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 28, 2007 7:54 PM
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I'm wondering what the question is. I happen to think it ridiculous to expect Israel to sit back and let Hezbollah attack her with no rebuttal. It is equally ridiculous to let Palestinian terrorists arm themselves and launch attack after attack against Israeli civilians and Israel do nothing.
You say no other country in the world could get away with what Israel gets away with; please tell me, what other country in the world is faced with what Israel is faced with? Israel is surrounded by countries intent on her destruction . . . who else faces such a situation? The U.S.? Britain? China? Russia? None, right?
Further, tell me what country on the earth would allow rocket attacks to go unanswered? If people from Mexico were bombing your churches would you demand your government take action?
What is YOUR question for Israel?
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May 28, 2007 8:11 PM
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> Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
>
> It seems that no one dares question the immorality of
> Israeli actions. America has been beating down
> sanctions in the U.N. against Israel for a
> generation. What the Israeli have done to the
> Palestinian and Lebanese people would be condemned if
> they had been done by any other government on earth,
> except Israel. Why do you think that is?
>
follow the money!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
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May 28, 2007 9:19 PM
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I think to understand our reluctance to question Israel goes much deeper into the psyche of Western culture, our mother culture if you will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_culture
I suspect it based more on superstition and mythology than sound moral rational thinking.
--
My heroes:Eric Hoffer, Bucky Fuller, Robert Pirsig, Walt Whitman, Michael Harrington, Peter Drucker, Dixie Chicks, Amy Goodman, Stan Musial, Eva Cassidy, Origen, Geranimo, Caesar Chavez, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., W.E.B.DuBois, Thurgood Marshall, Rocky Marciano, Max Ehrmann and Earl Nightingale.
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Posts:
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From:
Flagstaff
Registered:
7/12/01
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Re: lobbies buy politicians
May 28, 2007 10:28 PM
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> > Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
> >
> > It seems that no one dares question the immorality
> of
> > Israeli actions. America has been beating down
> > sanctions in the U.N. against Israel for a
> > generation. What the Israeli have done to the
> > Palestinian and Lebanese people would be condemned
> if
> > they had been done by any other government on
> earth,
> > except Israel. Why do you think that is?
> >
>
> follow the money!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Af
> fairs_Committee
Excuse me, but what sanctions were ever brought up in the UN against Israel? None that I know of.
I love how you talk about Israel's actions against the Palestinians and Lebanese, without ever mentioning their actions against Israel first. As if Israel has nothing better to do than attack those places. Did it ever occure to either of you that for every action, there is a reaction? No, I'm sure neither of you ever took the time to figure out why Israel takes these actions in the first place.
Do you two think the Israeli government sets there and says to each other, 'Well it's been over a month now since we drove tanks into Palestine and harassed the people and it's been two months since we sent planes into Lebanon and bombed them, we should do that tomorrow.' Is that what you think they do? Or has it ever crossed your narrow minds that these people attacked Israel first?
Miko, you can use that old line of yours forever, "follow the money" and you still haven't got a clue of what's going on.
Maybe if you two would put your prejudice aside for once and looked at the whole picture, you'd get some idea of what's going on over there.
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Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.
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Re: lobbies buy politicians
May 28, 2007 11:00 PM
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"Excuse me, but what sanctions were ever brought up in the UN against Israel? None that I know of."-
And why not? Israel has nuclear weapons and an unregulated nuclear program...which is actually worse than what we are objecting to with Iran. At least Iran is a signatory of the NPT.
The reason why not is because the U.S. is a permanent member of the security council, they veto any sanctions against Israel. Every single time.
A pretty poor arguement you make.
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That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. — Thomas Jefferson, American Declaration of Independence
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From:
Flagstaff
Registered:
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Re: lobbies buy politicians
May 28, 2007 11:18 PM
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> "Excuse me, but what sanctions were ever brought
> up in the UN against Israel? None that I know
> of."-
>
> And why not? Israel has nuclear weapons and an
> unregulated nuclear program...which is actually worse
> than what we are objecting to with Iran. At least
> Iran is a signatory of the NPT.
>
> The reason why not is because the U.S. is a permanent
> member of the security council, they veto any
> sanctions against Israel. Every single time.
>
> A pretty poor arguement you make.
>
> --
The UN has asked for resolutions against Israel but I don't remember sanctions ever put against her, or brought up for a vote. The US usually always vetos those because they don't also cover the ones that caused Israel to take the actions she does. Such as Hamas, Hezbollah or Palestine.
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Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.
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From:
Flagstaff
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Americans do question Israel's actions. When do you question the enemies?
May 29, 2007 12:32 AM
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This is when I was called an anti Semite. Now I am called anti Arab.
Geneh, I agree with most
Posted: Nov 14, 2002 5:28 PM (3 of 119)
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all that you said about the U.N. But I also agree that Israel will never see a week of peace until she gives back the land the settlements are on.
Also, I believe President Bush stated just a few weeks ago that the U.S. would never let Israel be defeated.
Mc, I think Israel knows
Posted: Nov 14, 2002 11:45 PM (12 of 119)
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that America will stand behind them. There has never been any doubt about that.
I have argued in Israel's favor many times. JustaGuy and I have had many discussions where I have been very pro Israel.
But on this issue I have never wavered. Israel is wrong. I am almost to the point in believing she would rather fight to keep the land she is stealing than to want peace.
It is obvious that Israel is a small country and growing in population. I think she sees herself as landlocked with no where to grow. She also has a problem with water rights if she gives back the land. While she could build salt water purification plants like Kuwait has, she hasn't.
As far as I am concerned,Sharon says it all when he says he will never give back any of the land the settlements are on. It tells me land is more important to Israel than peace. I am sorry to hear that,as I have leaned more in Israel's favor than the Palestinians. But on this issue, Israel is as wrong as she can be and there is no defense for it.
I am sorry to say, I think
Posted: Nov 15, 2002 12:04 PM (20 of 119)
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it's the other way around. Israel wants all of Palestine.
I have always said Israel deserved a state. They earned it helping the British defeat the Ottomans and they were more or less promised a state by the British for doing so.
I can also understand how the Arabs resented the Jews getting a state on what they felt was their land. I can understand them wanting to drive the Jews out and Israel having to fight for there very existance.
But things have changed over the years. Yes, there are still some that will never make peace with Israel. But many of the Arab countries, including the Palestinians have said they would recognize Israel's right to exist if Israel allowed a Palestinian state and went back to 1967 borders.
Israel, ( Sharon) has said in return, that they will never give up the settlements and go back to 1967 borders.
So how can there be peace when stealing land is more important than having peace with your neighbors?
Israel is ignoring what the Arabs are saying now. They have a chance for peace with most of the Arab states and are refusing it in order to keep the land they have stolen from the Palestinians.
Just maybe if they went back to 1967 borders and allowed a Palestinian state, the Palestinians would then put pressure on these militant groups that are fighting Israel, to stop it. They would have a reason to want them to stop. A reason they don't have now.
Palestinians made a mistake by not excepting a state in 47-48. I am sure that is because they felt it would be excepting a state that they felt were being cheated on sense Israel got a bigger slice with fewer people. Here it was their land to begin with and Israel gets a bigger piece of the pie.
Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state. But with all their settlements that go with it. What kind of state would that be? They haven't agreed to a Palestinian state as Palestine was pre 1967.
There are groups that have vowed to destroy Israel. But most of the Arab nations, including the PLO have said they would recognize Israel's right to exist if they went back to pre 1967 borders. Israel has never excepted that.
The U.S. has stated that they would never let Israel be defeated. There is no reason for Israel to keep all those settlements there except for wanting to grab more land and water.
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?forumID=84&threadID=1840&messageID=33925#33925
No, Miko, Israel is no saint by any sensse of the imagination. What they did in Bruit Lebanon was wrong and many people died from it. Letting the Lebanese Christian militia go into Palestinian camps by themselves after their President was killed was wrong as it could be. Sharon should have known what might happen there and hundreds of innocents were killed because of it. There are many instances where Israel done some very wrong things. But things won't change as long as you are teaching kids to hate and kill others. This is what the Muslim world continues to do, not only against Israel, but the U.S. and non Muslim people. You have to see a difference here.
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?forumID=2174&threadID=800011950&messageID=800183707#800183707
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Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.
--
Edited by marine1 at 05/29/2007 12:36 AM
--
Edited by marine1 at 05/29/2007 12:37 AM
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Re: Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 29, 2007 12:39 AM
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> It seems that no one dares question the immorality of
> Israeli actions. America has been beating down
> sanctions in the U.N. against Israel for a
> generation. What the Israeli have done to the
> Palestinian and Lebanese people would be condemned if
> they had been done by any other government on earth,
> except Israel. Why do you think that is?
>
This is merely a more updated version of the old "Jewish bankers manipulating the world from behind the scenes" story. Only an antisemite--but in this case filtered through anti-americanism--would suppose that a nation of 20 thousand sq miles, 6 million and a GNP of 140 Billion dominates a nation of 9 million sq mi, 300 million people and a GNP of 9 Trillion dollars.
Israel follows the US lead on just about everything. I is fortunate to have America as an ally and it knows it is fortunate. America calls the tune and Israel dances to it. Always!
Contrary to belief, it was not America's intention to created the State of Israel in 1947. FDR had promised King Abdulaziz (Ibn Saud) that it would not happen.Truman changed that policy literally at the last moment, probably for the hard headed reason that he needed the votes of the State of New York to win the '48 election. But the war of independence, in which 11 Arab countries attacked Israel created, especially in the aftermath of the holocaust, a David and Goliath image that the American sense of fair play naturally responded to. (American sympathy with the allied cause in WWI began with the German onslought on tiny Belgium.) And that's the way it was until after the '67 war. The 70's, saw the newly emerging Evangelist Christian movement come into being saw; they viewed the rebirth of Israel as confirmation of the story that Jesus was coming again and the end of the world was nigh.
It was a strange phenemenon, right wing Christians who love Jews and honor the recreation of Israel, and of couse, Israelis are generally left wing. But in a hard world, Israelis accept whatever support they can get. I think it was AB Hoshua who once respond to an Evangelist telling him how Jews would convert, by saying, Thank you! I am very grateful, but I hope you will forgive me if I do not recognize myself in that scenario.
I support Israel because I know the Arab world, and I know Israel. Israel is a modern, democratic country with a humanist live and let live outlook on life. Israel reminds me of California. Israelis are witty, cultured, intellectual, incredibly brave. I know that Israelis want nothing more than peace with their neighbors and that the Arabs will not rest until they have slit every Israeli's throat. The Arab world is a mess and full of hatreds, and Israel is not, not even against the Arabs. Every step Israel takes against Arabs is to protect their national security, the security of Jews living inside their own legitimate country from terrorist attack. They are vulnerable to 9/11's EVERY DAY of their lives if they did not do this.
It is remarkable to me that the American Left, including American Jews with Leftwing persuasions, have decided that because Israel won in '67, because America continues to support Israel, because Israel deals with the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah day in and day out as best it can but above all because the American Christian right supports them, that Israel is the guilty party. That is the American Left today and that is its greatest weakness.
Israel responds to very real terrorist plots and military threats directed against her her very existence. With such a small country the slightest error could result in national disaster within a few hours. So if they are "jumpy" at times, it is with good reason. Israel remains the David of this scenario, and I think most Americans realize that. Thank God!
Israel is the truest friend Americans have in the world today, and if you ever go to Israel you will feel the warmth of that friendship as soon as you step off the plane. They are grateful to Americans and they like America. They share the onus of being on the wrong side of the Leftist theoretical construct even though their circumstances are very differt from America's.
Sojourner, this issue is your main weakness as an ideologue. It is why we can never be on the same side in any conflict on this board or anywhere else.
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Edited by cphilips at 05/29/2007 12:52 AM
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Re: Why are Americans afraid to question Israel?
May 29, 2007 1:57 AM
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You have mentioned part of the argument about Isreal responding to attacks. But the other part which is a shamless land grab and spiteful occupation of the west bank is truly nasty.
If you are a Palestinian and you leave your house for work you may not have it when you get back since Settlers will set up shop there and Isreali soldiers and not let you go back in. This happens all the time either that or they will simply bulldoze it.
How would any American feel if this happened to them someone just decided they want your house and thats it your gone???
Seeing Gangs of young kids attacking Palestinian kids and people with rocks and screaming that its "jewish land and they dont belong" is hardly self defence while impartial troops just stand aside and let them do it.
Or how about damming the water and moving it so only settlers can get it and not anyone else.
And the humilating search's near where you live and stopped for hours and then allowing settlers through "one of whom was from Brooklyn not even Isreali " Just to humilate and remind them of there place.
I know people have there prejudices and Isreal does fight for its existence but what it does in occupied terrtories is petty spiteful and to be blunt a disgrace.
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Re: Israel--Enemy of Peace in the Middle East
May 29, 2007 7:23 AM
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If America and the U.K. quit financially, politically, and militarily supporting Israel, she would soon quit being a source of war in the region. She is a European colony, a holdover of another age and thinking, in which Europe felt it could impose borders and create society and culture in other people’s lands.
--
My heroes:Eric Hoffer, Bucky Fuller, Robert Pirsig, Walt Whitman, Michael Harrington, Peter Drucker, Dixie Chicks, Amy Goodman, Stan Musial, Eva Cassidy, Origen, Geranimo, Caesar Chavez, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., W.E.B.DuBois, Thurgood Marshall, Rocky Marciano, Max Ehrmann and Earl Nightingale.
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Re: Israel is a Mistake and source of one war after another
May 29, 2007 7:25 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071701154.html
Hunker Down With History
By Richard Cohen
--
My heroes:Eric Hoffer, Bucky Fuller, Robert Pirsig, Walt Whitman, Michael Harrington, Peter Drucker, Dixie Chicks, Amy Goodman, Stan Musial, Eva Cassidy, Origen, Geranimo, Caesar Chavez, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., W.E.B.DuBois, Thurgood Marshall, Rocky Marciano, Max Ehrmann and Earl Nightingale.
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