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Question about Syria/Isreal
Sep 19, 2003 9:58 AM
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OK people. I got some questions about the syrain/Isrealie(forgive spelling) conflict. Can anyone give me info, background, point off views, and #'s
Thanks
Jmoody
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Sep 19, 2003 11:55 AM
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I can "forgive" your spelling with one "but". If you don't know how to spell names of the countries - how can you know where they are, what they are... It seems to me that all my effort will be waste of time with such attitude.
Here is some history.
On the day Israel was established in May of 1948 by the UN resolution in the borders assigned to it by the same resolution - it was attacked by 6 Arab countries which included Syria. Their purpose was to destroy Israel. After initial success, they started to loose. In 1949, when Israel signed armistice agreement (not peace but brokered by UN armistice) with Syria (and with other Arab states) it gained back almost everything what it lost to Syria at the beginning of the war with exeption of the small strip along lake Kinereth (but, on the other hand, took from Syrian territory small piece of land called Hamat-Gader).
After that situation on Syrian-Israeli "line of armitice" was always violent. Syrians, having control of Golan heights overlooking Hula valley in Israel were periodically shelling farms and towns. Israel was returning fire. That was going on until spring of 1967. In April of that year usual violence escalated. It started when Syrians, as usually, shelled Israeli farmers, which were planting field at that time. Israel responded, then things escalated, airforce of both countries got involved and Syrians lost 5 fighter jets.
After that Syria declared total military mobilization increasing in coming weeks its army by 600%. Israel declared also mobilization, Egypt joined on the side of Syria and things went out of control. After Egypt closed international waters for Israeli ships Israel attacked Egypt, Syria attacked Israel and, so called, 6 days war had started.
Israel was victorious in that war and as the result occupied, which previously belonged to Syria, Golan Heights (from where Syrians for 19 years had been firing at Israeli towns).
After that Israel offered to Syria Golan Heights back in return for a peace agreement with Israel. Syria refused even to discuss this offer.
In 1973 Syrian (with Egypt) attacked Israel in order to return Golan Heights by force (and maybe something else). At the beginning it took control almost of all of it but later in the war lost to Israel not only Golan Heights but some additional territory beyond it.
And, even after that Syrainans did not want any negotiations.
Negotiations between Israel and Syria started only in 1990-ies when Syria lost her main ally and backer - Soviet Union. At that time Syria said that it can discuss peace agreement with Israel but only after (after) Israel will return Golan Heights. No negotiations until - that was Syrian word.
The closest to someting countries came when Barak was Israeli prime-minister. He offered Syria what she wanted with one exeption: Israel will return to the lines established by UN resolution in 1948 (in other words will retain strip along lake Kinereth but will return to Syria Hamat-Gader). Syria refused that offer. It said - only after Israel will return to the lines of 1967 it will start peace negotiations (Negotiations. Not peace!).
That how it stands now. Syria refuse to start negotiations until Israel will get back. Israel saying - now it has something to offer syrians in exchange for peace (Golan Heights). If it will give Syrians - what will be its part of bargain durinng negotiations? In such situtation - it will not be able to establish peace with Syria - it would not be able to offer anything.
That is how it stands right now.
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(3 of 24)
Re: Question about Syria/Isreal
Sep 19, 2003 4:41 PM
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Syria from its independence supported the Palestinian people in their resistance to the Zionists and refugees from Europe who were trying to establish a jewish state in Palestine. When the state of Israel was declared in 1948 Syria moved to support the Palestinians but its ramshackle army was not very efective and lost. A state of war continued to exist between the two countries untill 1967 when Israel initiated a war against the Arabs which Syria again lost and which led to (permanent?)the occupation of the Golan heights. In 1973 in an attempt to regain the Golan Syria launched a war against Israel which partially succeded in regaining some territory. Since then Syria has opposed Israeli expansion into Lebanon and supported resistance groups among the Palestinians. Another war between Syria and Israel would not be initiated by Syria as due to American support of Israel its armed forces are out classed. Israel knowing this reguarly threatens Syria and tries to convince America that Syrian support for Palestinian freedom is a threat to American interests.
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Re: Question about Syria/Isreal
Sep 19, 2003 7:13 PM
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I wouldn't listen to this geneh fellow. He's obviously a Zionist (read racist), and, apart from his spelling skills, has no idea of what he speaks.
Take, for example, his statement that Syria shelled Israeli 'farmers' in and around Lake Kinnerat (known to many as the Sea of Galilee). In fact, senior Israeli officials of the day, Moshe Dayan among them, have admitted that "at least 80 percent" of the pre-67 war incidents on the border were initiated by Israel. In Dayan's own words: "We would send a tractor to plow some [disputed] area . . . and we knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was."
Also, on the 7th of June of 67 the Israeli Foreign Minister announced at the UN that Israel accepted a cease fire. The next day Israeli planes attacked the USS Liberty, the day after that Israel attacked Syria. So much for the cease fire, I guess. The war against Syria, like the war against Egypt, had been in the planning for months. Gen. Aharon Yaariv, the Israeli chief of military intelligence, spoke on the 12th of May 1967 of "a military operation (against Syria) of great size and strength."
After the war Israel razed thirty-odd Arab towns and villages in the Golan, as well as what was then Syria's second-largest city.
Anyway, I could go on, but trust me in that this geneh fellow either doesn't know what he's talking about or he's deliberately telling falsehoods. Each and every one of Israel's wars, excepting only 73, have been Israeli wars of aggression and expansion. The 73 war was an attempt by the Arab nations to regain land they had lost in previous invasions.
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From:
Flagstaff
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Maybe it happened a little differently
Sep 20, 2003 8:03 PM
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http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/sixdaywar.html
Was Israel the agressor in 1967? Did Israel attack peacefull Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq on June 5, 1967 and wrestle the Gaza Strip from Egypt, the "West Bank" from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria?
THE 1967 WAR
In May 1967, Egypt and Syria took a number of steps which led Israel to believe that an Arab attack was imminent. On May 16, Nasser ordered a withdrawal of the United Nations Emergency Forces (UNEF) stationed on the Egyptian-Israeli border, thus removing the international buffer between Egypt and Israel which had existed since 1957. On May 22, Egypt announced a blockade of all goods bound to and from Israel through the Straits of Tiran. Israel had held since 1957 that another Egyptian blockade of the Tiran Straits would justify Israeli military action to maintain free access to the port of Eilat. Syria increased border clashes with Israel along the Golan Heights and mobilized its troops.
The U.S. feared a major Arab-Israeli and superpower confrontation and asked Israel to delay military action pending a diplomatic resolution of the crisis. On May 23, U.S. President Lyndon Johnson publicly reaffirmed that the Gulf of Aqaba was an international waterway and declared that a blockade of Israeli shipping was illegal. In accordance with U.S. wishes, the Israeli cabinet voted five days later to withhold military action.
The U.S., however, gained little support in the international community for its idea of a maritime force that would compel Egypt to open the waterway and it abandoned its diplomatic efforts in this regard. On May 30, President Nasser and King Hussein signed a mutual defense pact, followed on June 4 by a defense pact between Cairo and Baghdad. Also that week, Arab states began mobilizing their troops. Against this backdrop, Nasser and other Egyptian leaders intensified their anti-Israel rhetoric and repeatedly called for a war of total destruction against Israel.
Arab mobilization compelled Israel to mobilize its troops, 80 percent of which were reserve civilians. Israel feared slow economic strangulation because long-term mobilization of such a majority of the society meant that the Israeli economy and polity would be brought to a virtual standstill. Militarily, Israeli leaders feared the consequences of absorbing an Arab first strike against its civilian population, many of whom lived only miles from Arab-controlled territory. Incendiary Arab rhetoric threatening Israel's annihilation terrified Israeli society and contributed to the pressures to go to war.
Against this background, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt on June 5, 1967 and captured the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip. Despite an Israeli appeal to Jordan to stay out of the conflict, Jordan attacked Israel and lost control of the West Bank and the eastern sector of Jerusalem. Israel went on to capture the Golan Heights from Syria. The war ended on June 10.
- Anti-Defamation League
Israel did indeed simultaneously attack Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq on June 5, 1967. It had little choice. For weeks leading up to that day, Israel's Arab enemies upped the temperature by amassing troops on the borders of the tiny Jewish state, while threatening murder and mayhem. Consider the following:
May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula. The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.
May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.
May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."
May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."
May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war. (US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")
May 20: Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."
May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."
May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."
May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.
My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."
May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."
June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.
June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.
June 10: Israel and its enemies accepted UN Security Council cease-fire demands. The war ended, leaving Israel in control of the Sinai peninsula, eastern Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, Judea-Samaria and the Gaza Strip. (The Sinai was returned to Egypt between 1978 and 1982, as part of an Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty.)
Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life down here.
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Sep 21, 2003 6:37 PM
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What a bunch of whatever.
Look, marine1, Egypt was totally within it's rights to demand that UNEF withdraw from Egyptian territory. And UNEF wasn't set up to 'protect tiny Israel', it was set up after Israel, along with Britain and France, invaded Egypt in 1956, in what was one of the last overtly imperialistic land grabs. It was only the intervention of the US that forced the invaders to withdraw.
The President of the US may indeed have declared the Tiran Straits to be an international waterway - too bad it wasn't up to the US President to make such a determination. Under the laws of the day, that waterway was Egyptian, certainly not international. And, in fact, no Israeli ship had used the Straits in years.
Yes, Egypt sent in three divisions. If you think that three divisions represented, in any way, a threat to Israel's IDF (sic), you don't deserve the name Marine.
Yes, Nasr made a bunch of whacked-out speeches. So what? Arabs were constantly making such speeches then, proves he was an idiot, nothing more. And you failed to mention that Nasr sent LBJ a secret message "offering non-belligerence and an exchange of ambassadors with Israel in return for resumed U.S. relations with Egypt and 'just and adequate compensation' for Palestinian refugees" (Ha'aretz 5 Apr 2001). LBJ turned him down.
In point of fact, Menachem Begin gave an interview to the NY Times on the 21st of August 1982 in which he said: "In June l967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasr was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."
As for your quote saying that 'Syria increased border clashes with Israel', I've already shown you where senior Israeli officials admitted just the opposite, that in fact they were responsible for the overwhelming majority of the clashes. And, if you had read the Washington Post on the 20th of February 1993, you would have seen an investigative report that said: "These events, and many more like them, have been extensively documented by four consecutive UNTSO chiefs of staff who were responsible for keeping peace and reporting armistice violations on both sides . . . To put this period (1949-1967) in its proper historical perspective, then, what is now termed by Israel's advocates as 'Syrian shelling from the Golan Heights' represents only a portion of what was recorded by U.N. observers at the time as 'mutual exchanges of fire on both sides,' caused mainly by Israel's campaign to gradually annex Arab-owned land inside the demilitarized zone. . .
It is clear from the historical record that the phrase 'Syrian shelling from the Golan Heights' did not even exist at the time and does not appear in U.N. records. That is because the point of origin-the Golan- was in itself not relevant, and because the real problem of the time was Israeli land encroachment, of which the Syrian responses were but a result. The phrase, in fact, came into use only after the 1967 war, by people seeking to justify Israel's retention of that particular territory."
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From:
Flagstaff
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(7 of 24)
Sep 21, 2003 9:48 PM
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So your trying to say that the statements Egypt and Syria made on radio and the papers was just talk and Israel should have not taken it serious?
Demanding the withdraw of UN peace keeping forces on the Israel,Egyption border and replacing them with Egyption, PLO, fedayeen and Arab irregulars also should not have been any concern? Syrian troops on Israel's Northern borders didn't mean that much either?
You say,"Yes, Egypt sent in three divisions. If you think that three divisions represented, in any way, a threat to Israel's IDF (sic), you don't deserve the name Marine."
If I am not mistaken, these three divisions were caught in the Sinai, on there way to the Israeli border.How many more were on there way before Israel struck them? We know for sure that the Arabs were not quite ready to attack. Israel got them before they did.So the fact that at the time the war started, Egypt only had three divisions on the way doesn't mean anything.
You don't seem like a stupid person to me by any means. But you can't tell me if you were in charge of Israel's defense and you saw Arab troops starting to surround your country on all sides and the leaders of these countries coming out and telling the world that they are going to once and for all, wipe you off the map. You see Egypt demanding the withdraw of UN peace keepers, you are not going to think you are about to be invaded. No one in their right mind would think anything else.
Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life down here.
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Flagstaff
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(8 of 24)
More information on what led to 1967 war.
Sep 22, 2003 7:04 AM
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What led to the Six Day War in 1967?
Terrorist Attacks on Israel
From early 1965 to the Six-Day War in June 1967, the PLO through Fatah pursued a consistent policy of border attacks, particularly along the Jordanian and Lebanese borders. Criticism of these activities by the Arab governments and by local public opinion persuaded Fatah leaders to adopt a new approach known as "the entanglement theory." This involved using sabotage to force Israel to adopt an offensive position, which in turn would force the Arabs to step up their military preparedness. This cycle of action-retaliation-reaction would lead to a gradual escalation of tension on the borders, and eventually to the Six Day War in 1967.
In 1965, 35 terrorist raids were conducted against Israel. In 1966, the number increased to 41. In just the first four months of 1967, 37 attacks were launched.
The number of dangerous incidents on the Syrian border increased following Israel?s activation of the National Water Carrier from the Sea of Galilee to the Negev in 1964. Syria and the other Arab countries opposed the National Water Carrier project and tried to destroy it by diverting the tributaries of the Jordan river located in their territories; Israel bombed the diversion works in response. This tension came against the backdrop of the on-going border clashes along the demilitarized zone between Israel and Syria, as Syria resisted Israel's attempts to increase use of the DMZ for Israeli agriculture. (The DMZ was the result of the terms of the Israel-Syria armistice signed on July 20, 1949.) Syria launched attacks on Israeli farmers cultivating land in the demilitarized zone and on Israeli fishing boats and other craft in the Sea of Galilee, shelling from the commanding Golan Heights that rise dramatically to the east of the border areas.
Military Provocation By Arab Countries and Soviet Disinformation
While Israel consistently expressed a desire to negotiate a peace with its neighbors, there was no matching sentiment on the Arab side. In an address to the UN General Assembly on October 10, 1960, Foreign Minister Golda Meir challenged Arab leaders to meet with Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to negotiate a peace settlement. Nasser (Egypt) answered on October 15, saying that Israel was trying to deceive world opinion, and reiterating that his country would never recognize the Jewish State. Nasser's rhetoric became increasingly bellicose; on March 8, 1965 he said:
We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand. We shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood.
A few months later, Nasser expressed the Arabs' goal to be:
... the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel.
Other Arab leaders from Syria, Jordan, and Iraq joined in the rhetoric and preparations for war, increasing pressure on Egypt's President Gamal Nasser, perceived as the leader of the Arab world. Syria's attacks along the DMZ grew more frequent in 1965 and 1966. Syria's attacks on Israeli kibbutzim from the Golan Heights provoked a retaliatory strike on April 7, 1967, during which Israeli planes shot down six Syrian MiGs. Israel followed up by re-introducing military forces to the DMZ.
At the same time, and unknown to the Israelis, the Soviet Union mounted a disinformation campaign pushing Egypt to join Syria against Israel. At that time, the Soviets were providing military and economic aid to both Syria and Egypt. On May 13, 1967 a Soviet parliamentary delegation visited Cairo and informed the Egyptian leaders that Israel had concentrated eleven to thirteen brigades along the Syrian border in preparation for an assault within a few days, with the intention of overthrowing the revolutionary Syrian Government. This was a complete fabrication designed by the Soviets to destabilize the Middle East. Similar false information may have been given to Egypt by the Soviets as early as May 2.
The build up and aggressive intent were denied by Israel. UN Secretary General U Thant reported that UNTSO observers on the Syrian border:
... have verified the absence of troop concentrations and absence of noteworthy military movements on both sides of the [Syrian] line.
Nasser probably correctly interpreted the Soviet information as an indication to him that the time was ripe for an attack on Israel and that he had their backing. With the United States deeply distracted by the War in Vietnam, the Soviets had reason to think there would be no US intervention. Nassar then abandoned his former cautious policy and took the lead for new aggression against Israel. Syria and Iraq eagerly joined Egypt's preparations, increasing the momentum toward war.
On May 15, Israel's 19th Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.
On May 16, Nassar requested the withdrawal of the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956. Egyptian forces moved up to the UNEF lines and began to harrass the UN positions. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly, as his predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. This was a direct violation of the conditions under which Israel had returned control of the Sinai to Egypt after the Sinai Campaign. The UN force was supposed to safeguard Israel from Egypt again closing the Straits of Tiran or launching terrorist attacks from that quarter.
Blockade of the Straits of Tiran
In 1956, the United States gave Israel assurances that it recognized the Jewish State's right of access to the Straits of Tiran. In 1957, at the UN, 17 maritime powers declared that Israel had a right to transit the Strait. Moreover, any blockade violated the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958. Nonetheless, on on the night of May 22-23, 1967 Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran.
Nasser was fully aware of the pressure he was exerting to force Israel's hand. The day after the blockade was set up, he said defiantly:
The Jews threaten to make war. I reply: Welcome! We are ready for war.
Final Blows Lead to War
There is evidence that Egypt was warned by the US and the Soviet Union in late May 1967 that war should be avoided, but by then the momentum to war was unstoppable.
King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30, 1967, under which Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command. He had little choice since Jordan housed 700,000 Palestinian Arabs whose rioting in November 1966 almost brought down Hussein's government. On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria. President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq added these words to the mountain of provocation:
The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map.
Armed forces in the Arab countries were mobilized. Israel was confronted by an Arab force of some 465,000 troops, over 2,880 tanks and 810 aircraft. The armies of Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.( Which all could have been used against Israel if Israel had waited for the Arabs to invade first.)
Israeli forces had been on high alert during the three weeks of tension which began on May 15, 1967 when it became known that Egypt had concentrated large-scale forces in the Sinai peninsula, an alert status Israel could not maintain indefinitely. The country could not accept interdiction of its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba. Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this successfully, Israel had to achieve surprise, not wait for an Arab invasion, a potential catastrophic situation. On June 4, the Cabinet authorized the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence to decide on appropriate steps to defend the State of Israel.
Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life down here.
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Sep 22, 2003 10:30 AM
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"Israel did indeed simultaneously attack Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq on June 5, 1967"
That statement is not correct. Even if Israel would be attempting to do that - it did not have resources.
Israel attacked only Egypt in the morning of June 5, 1967.
At the same time Israel sent letters to Jordan and Labanon (two bordering countries), promising not to attack these countries first (it did not send such letter to Syria). Lebanon did not attack Israel and Israel did not touch Lebanon keeping its promiss. Differnt story happened with Jordan. King Hussein, after receiving letter, called first Egyptian military chief Amir and then Naser himself trying to find about situation on the front. When both assured him that half of Israeli forces is destroyed and Egyptian army is in the suburb of Tel-Aviv, only then he ordered its forces to attack Israel (was concern that he can be late for cake). Only after Joradinian attack Israel moved toward this country. It happened only in afternoon of June 5.
With Syria was a differnt story. After Syrian generals found out about about Israeli attack on Efypt they immediately ordered airforce to bomb Israel. Israel did not have good air defence at that time (99% of Israeli airforce was involved on Egyptian front) so Syrians were able to bomb third biggest city of Israel - Haifa (closest to Syria) and some farms on the north of the country. Syria was undeciseve in ground attack which helped Israel to repulse it and later in the war start counterattack.
My point is - Israel attacked Egypt but both Syria and Jordan attacked Israel.
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From:
Flagstaff
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Sep 22, 2003 10:51 AM
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I don't think it's as inportant of who attacked who first. The important question, as far as I am concerned, is why the war took place in the first place.I think that is quite obvious when all the facts come out.
Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life down here.
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Sep 22, 2003 1:22 PM
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I was in a hurry to type this in my lunch break. Sorry if my spelling offended you. Really.
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Sep 22, 2003 6:32 PM
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I don't know where you're getting this 'information', nor do I know why you keep arguing the same point over and over. Yes, there were cross border attacks by Palestinians, just as there were cross border attacks by Israelis. These were, in the scheme of things, minor irritants, not worthy of starting a major war over. As for the 'Syrian shelling', not a single Israeli civilian was killed in these attacks. And, as I've already shown you, most of these 'attacks' came in response to Israeli provocations along the DMZ, provocations that not only involved the outright theft of Arab farmland, but the occupation of whole Arab towns within the DMZ. This was also the timeframe in which Ariel Sharon led a commando attack on the Syrian village of Kursi, killing 30-odd villagers, including a number of women.
As for the water, Israel had been attempting to divert those waters since early 1951. In fact, Eisenhower at one time suspended aid to Israel because of this diversion. The Mixed Armistice Commission, set up to monitor the Israeli/Syrian armistice and the DMZ, called the diversion project 'a flagrant violation' of the armistice. UN Security Council Resolution 92 called on the Israelis to stop their water project. The 'National Water Carrier' diverted water from Lake Kinneret, and did so without consultations from either Syria or Jordan. The Syrians and Jordanians both tried in 1965 and 66 their own water diversion projects. The Israelis destroyed the works first with artillery fire and then with fighter/bombers. Israel wanted the water for itself, only.
Your supposition that Egypt may have been moving other forces into the Sinai is pure fantasy. They were not. The three divisions, along with some Palestinian irregulars, were on their own. The Egyptian Air Force was lined up wing tip to wing tip, certainly not ready for war. The fact remains that neither Egypt nor Syria was in any way threatening to Israel, and, in fact, Israel had much to gain from starting a war. The fact that Nasr made stupid political moves shows him to be an idiot, but subsequent events in the Sinai, the Goland and the West Bank of the Jordan show the Israelis to be imperialistic fascists, intend on gaining more lebensraum for it's Jewish citizens.
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From:
Flagstaff
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Sep 23, 2003 11:38 AM
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I agree that even though the Palestinians committed 37 attacks against Israel in 1967, in just four months.Two more than they committed in all of 1965, it wasn't enough of a reason to start a war.
But removing the UN peace keepers, replacing them with Arab and PLO troops, moving up thousands of troops and 600 tanks close to Israel's border, making war agreements with Jordan and Iraq to join in on attacks, Moving Syrian troops on to Israel's Northern border, closing off the Gulf of Aqaba which allowed vital oil to come into Israel and coming out on radio and newspapers and saying it is time to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, is enough reason to start a war don't you think?
I believe after reading up more on the water dispute, the Arabs have a legitimate complaint. But one that could be worked out with the building of desalting plants on both sides to give all enough water. Kuwait has done this and it works quite well I hear.
But I see nothing that tells me Israel did not have every right to start the 1967 war.
Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life down here.
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(14 of 24)
Sep 23, 2003 11:46 AM
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Between 1967 and 1973 there were at least 7 initiatives launched to negotiate a peaceful resolution of the Middle East situation based on UN resolution 242, which were all basically shot down by Israel or its US lobby.
packer
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Sep 23, 2003 5:06 PM
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To restate, then:
The three Egyptian armored divisions in the Sinai presented absolutely no threat to Israel.
There were no other Egyptian forces enroute or earmarked for the Sinai.
The raids by Fatah on Israel, in 1967, killed one Israeli civilian. One.
There were no significant Syrian troop movements on the frontier prior to June.
Whatever border clashes there were on the Syrian/Israeli frontier were, for the most part, started by Israel.
Not a single Israeli civilian was killed by Syrian forces in pre-war 67.
Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, something that was well within it's rights.
The Egyptians, far from 'gearing up' for hostilities, were totally unprepared for war with the Zionist state, as witnessed by the decimation of their Air Force (on the ground) in the first days of the war.
The Israelis were apparently willing to do whatever it took to secure Lake Tiberias and it's tributary.
The Israelis continually ignored the UN, the US, it's own agreements, international laws and conventions.
Nasr, in an attempt to distract the Israelis from clobbering the Syrians, kicked out UNEF, while at the same time privately telling the US that he was willing to exchange ambassadors with Israel if it came to some accomodation with the Palestinian refugees and stopped pushing into the DMZ with Syria.
Israel, wanting what it wanted, first attacked Egypt, then, after declaring at the UN that they were abiding by a cease-fire, attacked Syria and Jordan.
Israel then occupied the Sinai, the West Bank (including all of Jerusalem), Gaza and the Golan Heights. Almost immediately they started expelling Arabs from the Golan, Gaza, West Bank and Jerusalem. They leveled entire villages in the Golan. They've imprisoned and tortured thousands of men, women and children in the three plus decades since, most of whom were guilty of nothing, the others guilty of resisting an illegal occupation. They've drained the waters not only of the Jordan and Lake Tiberias, but the aquifers of the West Bank. So while Jewish Israelis lounge poolside, many Arabs, even some Arab citizens of Israel, have never seen running water. The UN has had, on occasion, to truck in potable water to Arab towns and cities.
Tell me again why Israel was 'right' to start the 67 war.
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