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Posts:
11
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8/1/02
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(31 of 60)
Aug 3, 2002 12:26 PM
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The U.N. report ovbiosly is coming too late. We all know how long it took for UN's people to actually get into Jenin camp. After repeated rejections from Israeli authorities the U.N. gave up the search for aftermath. Only after several weeks could they really get inside the refugee camp.
I'm not implying that 500 ppls did really die there but repeated rejections from the Israeli side were really unnecessary. If nothing happened then why not just leave the teams work right after the Israeli assault finished.
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Posts:
27,250
From:
Flagstaff
Registered:
7/12/01
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(32 of 60)
Aug 3, 2002 10:59 PM
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The more you read, the more you find out things aren't always the way people say they are. There is also always two sides to every story. We just need to hear both sides before condemning.
I'm doing ok thank you. My wife has been home alot. She had her foot operated on a few weeks ago and has only started working again, half days. I try not to get on to much when she is home so she will not feel neglected. But after she goes to sleep, it's all mine.
Well lets see how they are doing it. I am going all the way back to a post I put up on 2002 and I'm going to add this to it. Lets see if it pumps it up to the top..
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Posts:
115
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6/25/02
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(33 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 5:34 AM
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You are missing the very important difference between a news coming from a free press and news coming from a government controlled press.
But, of course, you're entitled to your opinion.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
115
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6/25/02
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(34 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 5:41 AM
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So true, it's easy to accept the news, even unsubstantiated, when it fits our already formed views.
Man, I am so jealous! How do I get my husband to behave the way you do with your wife??
;D
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
11
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8/1/02
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(35 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 8:25 AM
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Seeing is believing; unless they (the controlled press as you call them) are creating immages of tanks and immages of children separately and then put them together then I agree with you. Til then I can only see tanks rolling over dead bodies. So I repeat seeing is believing.
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Posts:
115
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(36 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:11 AM
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a little work, but if you investigated the news and it's sources, that comes out of the government sponsored media from the Palestinians, Syria, etc..., you would be able to comprehend the points the article makes here.
If all you believe is what you see, then you'll be an easy one to manipulate.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
807
Registered:
8/6/01
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(37 of 60)
And exactly why will Israel not accept
Aug 4, 2002 11:16 AM
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independent observers or monitors of any kind?
Are they like Saddam and have something to hide or are they just being dumb and causing themselves to look guilty?
packer
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Posts:
807
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8/6/01
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(38 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:19 AM
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that Israel never lies or puts dis-information or false statements?
They are little different from the PALS.
packer
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115
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6/25/02
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(39 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:21 AM
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the facts about that, Packer, so I can't answer that. But I'll listen if you wish to inform me.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
115
Registered:
6/25/02
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(40 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:22 AM
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Is that what you think I said, really?
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
115
Registered:
6/25/02
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(41 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:23 AM
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When are you coming over to my homepage?
:D
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
807
Registered:
8/6/01
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(42 of 60)
The thing that's in your subject.
Aug 4, 2002 11:26 AM
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"Lies and Disinformation".
ALL governemtns do it. It makes no difference if they are a dictatorship such as Saudi Arabia or a republic such as the United States. (there are no true democracies that I know of)
packer
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115
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6/25/02
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(43 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:28 AM
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you don't see the difference between a state sponsored media and a free press.
I NEVER said that all governments don't lie, or deliberately put out disinformation, that wasn't the point though.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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Posts:
807
Registered:
8/6/01
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(44 of 60)
Did you not post the following:
Aug 4, 2002 11:35 AM
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Among the more serious, yet least noticed, casualties in the war on terrorism now raging in Israel is basic truth. Along with attacking civilians, the Palestinians are attacking the truth and creating facts out of whole cloth.
This attack on the truth is clearly documented by the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs in a document called "Lies and Disinformation as a Palestinian Weapon."
Now, skeptics may claim that of course the Israeli ministry would claim that the Palestinians are lying, just as the Palestinians claim about the Israelis. But this moral equivalency omits an important basic point: Israel is a full democracy, whereas the Palestinian Authority — like every single Arab entity or government — is a dictatorship. For example, Israel has a free press which can — and quite doggedly does — question reports from their officials. In contrast, the Arab authorities themselves determine the "facts," and publish them as "facts."
It’s stunning, and depressing, to realize that meetings of the Arab League are the only international meetings — since the Soviets assembled the Warsaw Pact nations — without one single elected government. No other world forum — none meeting in Asia, Latin America, Europe, or elsewhere — lacks at least one government which respects human rights and allows freedom of speech, press, and the other values civilized people hold dear. This sorry state of affairs enables Arab dictatorships to create "truth" which is picked up by the regime-controlled press of Arab nations, and — all too often — the Western press.
Dr. Lynne Cheney, wife of the current vice president, best explained the moral damage done by such distortions seven years ago in her excellent book, Telling the Truth (Simon & Schuster, 1995).
"Without the idea that we live in reality … compassion is impossible and so is any other virtue one could name. Nothing beyond the gratification of the moment matters in such a world, not fairness, not justice, not responsibility, not honor. None of them matters because in such a world none of them exists."
In a world where the "truth" is manufactured and not objectively observed and reported, Dr. Cheney insightfully explains, barbarism is sure to follow. We are witnessing this now as horrid homicide bombings follow horrid distortions of truth.
Among the most outrageous distortions, some of which were subsequently broadcast by the Western press:
— Hassan Asfor, a Palestinian spokesman, told BBC radio that the Israeli Defense Force had broken into Arafat's office and that Arafat’s office was "on the brink of disaster." His office was never broken into.
— The Italian and French media picked up an April 2, Palestinian television report that the Palestinian leadership announced that a priest, Jacques Amathis, had been killed and dozens of monks wounded in an IDF action in Bethlehem. The announcement in the West created outcries of protests in Europe. Yet the very next day, Father Amathis was interviewed and confirmed that he and the monks in the monastery were safe and well.
— On April 3, Chairman Arafat told Al Jazeera, the television network watched across the Arab world, that Israel had "burned the mosque" opposite Santa Maria Church in Bethlehem and "destroyed many churches and mosques." He called upon the Christian and Muslim world to take action. None of it happened. All of this was creating truth.
— In an interview with Abu Dhabi television on March 29, Arafat told of an "incident in Hebron, that insolent and criminal incident; [the IDF] even attacked and killed in the Hebron area three members of the international force: two from Turkey and one of the nurses from Switzerland." The Turkish member of this force said in a later radio interview that the attack had been carried out by a uniformed Palestinian.
The examples of such truth-creation go on and on. The full text can be found here.
Somehow, if the Palestinian and Arab world is to begin taking humane actions, it must begin telling the truth. Dr. Cheney writes of "the moral consequences of insisting that reality is nothing more than what" is created out of thin air. "The idea of responsibility — of being accountable for one’s actions — has no meaning in a world where there is neither truth nor reality."
Kenneth Adelman is a frequent guest commentator on Fox News, was assistant to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from 1975 to 1977 and, under President Ronald Reagan, U.N. ambassador and arms-control director. Mr. Adelman is now co-host of TechCentralStation
Now please show me where in there the Israeli culpability is mentioned?
packer
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Posts:
115
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6/25/02
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(45 of 60)
Aug 4, 2002 11:35 AM
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very interesting, Packer. I can't give an opinion of this, because I just don't see all the aspects and repercussions of it. But I see your point.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
=^-^=
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