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(1 of 75)
Nov 3, 2009 5:03 PM
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Wouldn't praying to the dead and asking them for favors like Roman Cathoics do be a form of ancestor worship?
B.B.
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(2 of 75)
Nov 3, 2009 5:15 PM
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"dead" meaning to be elsewhere or "dead" meaning annihilated?
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(3 of 75)
Nov 3, 2009 5:27 PM
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Wouldn't praying to the dead and asking them for favors like Roman Cathoics do be a form of ancestor worship?
Only if you belong to a "dirt napping' denomination.
--
"Hence sacred Tradition and Scripture are bound together in a close and reciprocal relationship… Scripture is the utterance of God as it is set down in writing under the guidance of God's Spirit; Tradition preserves the word of God as it was entrusted to the apostles by Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit, and transmits it to their successors,so that these in turn,enlightened by the Spirit of truth,may faithfully preserve,expound and disseminate the Word by their preaching.”(Dei Verbum, 9).
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(4 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 10:55 AM
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> Only if you belong to a "dirt napping' denomination.
Please explain your comment
B.B.
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(5 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 1:59 PM
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bump
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(6 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 2:00 PM
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> "dead" meaning to be elsewhere or "dead" meaning
> annihilated?
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(7 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 3:57 PM
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> > "dead" meaning to be elsewhere or "dead"
> meaning
> > annihilated?
I wasn't talking to you.
B.B.
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(8 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 4:02 PM
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Ancestor worship is veneration of the dead and the belief that they have a continued existence and possess the ability to influence the fortune of the living.
Same-o same-o with the veneration of saints by the Roman Catholic church.
B.B.
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(9 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 4:12 PM
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Non-believer here, but I believe Catholics sometimes pray to Saints.
So I would say its only ancestor worship if you have a Saint in the family.
Of course, if you want to take the really broad view that we are all related, then maybe yes.
Sowhat
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(10 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 4:21 PM
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Deuteronomy 18:10
"There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, 11 or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead.
Inquiring of the dead is the same as praying to "saints"
Those prayers go unheard.
Matthew 6:9
“YOU must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.
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".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
My pretty face just looked out of place,
As they poured on the scorn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0xHTszwbWk
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(11 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 4:40 PM
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biblestudent ,-are you forgetting that as a very devout Jew Jesus worshiped as a Jew and Jews do believe in a purification (a purgation) that takes place after death. When a Jewish person’s loved one dies, it is customary to pray on his behalf for 11 months using a prayer known as mourner’s kaddish (derived from the Hebrew word meaning holy). This prayer is used to ask God to hasten the purification of the loved one’s soul. The kaddish is prayed for only 11 months because it is thought to be an insult to imply that the loved one’s sins were so severe that he would require a full year of purification.
The practice of praying for the dead has been a part of the Jewish faith since before Christ. Remember that 2 Maccabees 12:39–46, on which Catholics base their observance of this practice, shows that, a century and a half before Christ, prayer for the dead was taken for granted. Unlike Protestantism, Catholicism has preserved this element of authentic Judeo-Christian faith.
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(12 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 4:52 PM
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> Non-believer here, but I believe Catholics sometimes
> pray to Saints.
> So I would say its only ancestor worship if you have
> a Saint in the family.
> Of course, if you want to take the really broad view
> that we are all related, then maybe yes.
>
> Sowhat
I don't think it makes any difference if the people are not relatives, it's the same principal.
B.B.
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(13 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 5:58 PM
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Although physical human bodies die, human souls never die. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that every spiritual soul "is immortal: It does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection".
So at the moment of death, the soul separates from the body, is judged immediately, and enters either heaven (immediately or through purgatory) or hell.
Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately—or immediate and everlasting damnation.
(For scriptural evidence of this, see Luke 16:22; 23:43; 2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23.)
Every soul will unite with its resurrected body just prior to the Last Judgment ("Judgment Day") when Christ returns:
In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare. The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life . . .
The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God’s justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God’s love is stronger than death.
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(14 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 6:59 PM
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> biblestudent ,-are you forgetting that as a very
> devout Jew Jesus worshiped as a Jew and Jews do
> believe in a purification (a purgation) that takes
> place after death. When a Jewish person’s loved one
> dies, it is customary to pray on his behalf for 11
> months using a prayer known as mourner’s kaddish
> (derived from the Hebrew word meaning holy). This
> prayer is used to ask God to hasten the purification
> of the loved one’s soul. The kaddish is prayed for
> only 11 months because it is thought to be an insult
> to imply that the loved one’s sins were so severe
> that he would require a full year of purification.
>
> The practice of praying for the dead has been a part
> of the Jewish faith since before Christ. Remember
> that 2 Maccabees 12:39–46, on which Catholics base
> their observance of this practice, shows that, a
> century and a half before Christ, prayer for the dead
> was taken for granted. Unlike Protestantism,
> Catholicism has preserved this element of authentic
> Judeo-Christian faith.
That's not what Judaism 101 says:
http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/kaddish.htm
It mentions nothing about the dead, and plus Christians are not Jews and therefore we don't go by what they do. The only reason you want to try and associate Kaddish with Christians is because the church of Rome believes in re-placemant theology. Not the church of Rome nor Christians have replaced Israel.
It is believed that Kaddish was started in Babylon.
B.B.
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(15 of 75)
Nov 4, 2009 7:07 PM
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I do think not you understand the tradition and are merely looking to condemn what you know nothing of. I could be wrong.
It is not the same and your definition is not correct.
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