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(16 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 8:31 PM
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> biblestudent,
> I have tried and tried to straighten this out many
> times with no success. YHWH is the Father, Jesus is
> "the Word". The Father uses "the Word" to create all
> things. Jesus is the spoken Word that comes to man
> from God.
>
> It is just as hard to get you to understand that
> t Jesus is not the Father, but is part of God
> as the Word, as it is to tell the
> Catholics/Christian's that Jesus is not the Father,
> who we are to worship, but he comes from God.
>
> You say he is not part of God at all, and they say he
> is God all and all. Both are totally wrong.
>
> The Father, The Word and the Holy Ghost are all 3
> one. The Father is Spirit, The Word is Spirit and the
> Holy Ghost is Spirit. Jesus said, that the Father is
> greater than I, he says you are to ask/pray to the
> Father, not to Jesus. The Word is our mediator, we
> are to obey the Word, love the Word, and honor the
> Word. All things were made by the Word and through
> the Word.
>
> The Father speaks the Word and Jesus the Word heals
> us, and creates as the Father commands. Jesus is the
> Torah, he is the literal Word of God. That is why he
> is said to be the light of the world, because the
> Word of God brings light/goodness to all who hear
> him.
> If you notice in many of the beginnings of the
> Chapters of the New Testament you always have God the
> Father and the Lord Jesus Christ mentioned. The
> Father, can not accept you, if you do not accept the
> Word, Jesus Christ.
> Gal 1:3
> 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the
> Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,KJV
>
> 1 Thess 1:1
> 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the
> church of the Thessalonians which is in God the
> Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto
> you, and peace, from God our Father, and the
> Lord Jesus Christ.KJV
>
> 2 Tim 1:2
>
> 2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy,
> and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus
> our Lord.
> KJV
>
> Titus 1:4
>
> 4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith:
> Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father
> and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
> KJV
>
> 2 John 3
>
> 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God
> the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ,
> the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
> KJV
>
> Jude 1
> 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of
> James, to them that are sanctified by God the
> Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and
> called:
> KJV
OK, that's all good, the only disagreement we have here is the false trinity doctrine.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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Posts:
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(17 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 8:56 PM
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> What does it mean to be "a people for His Name" when
> referencing the scripture at Acts 15:14?
>
> The Bible shows that the very existence of the true
> Christian congregation is connected with God’s name.
> The apostle Peter explained that God “turned his
> attention to the nations to take out of them a people
> for his name.” (Acts 15:14) So God’s true people must
> treat his name as holy and make it known throughout
> the earth. In fact, knowing that name is necessary
> for salvation, as the Bible says: “For ‘everyone who
> calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’”—Romans
> 10:13, 14.
>
> Now this name is not to be considered some type of
> magical charm. Surely that is not what is meant. But
> certainly it must signify that Jehovah would gather a
> people who not only know, use and glorify his name,
> but who endeavour to the very best of their ability
> to live up to what that name represents.
>
> What does that name represent?
>
> Well now that's the point. And this is the work that
> I and over seven million of my brothers are engaged
> in. It was laid upon all who would be followers of
> Jesus that they should go forth and preach the Good
> News of God's Kingdom to all the inhabited earth.
> Furthermore they must teach all the things that Jesus
> had taught them. At Matthew 6:9 it is recorded that
> we should pray for God's Name to be sanctified
> (hallowed) and that his will should be accomplished
> on Earth as it is in Heaven.
>
> The name of Jehovah has such powerful meaning. But
> that we pronounce it Jehovah or Yahweh or whatever is
> not the point. In German it is one way, in Spanish it
> is another and in Hebrew it is forbidden to say. So
> what is the fuss?
>
> That an English transliteration appeared that is
> still recognized does not invalidate the meaning of
> the name.
>
> Now, let those of us who are men, be men. Let those
> of you who are ladies, be ladies.
>
> Pursue what is known and learn more. Expand your
> horizons by expanding your mind. Be not the sort that
> shrink back, for those who do so actually pursue
> their own destruction. Rather be the sort that have
> faith to the preserving alive of your very soul.
> (Hebrews 10:39)
>
> --
> You will know the truth, and the truth will set you
> free. -JOHN 8:32.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you read the two accounts of creation and of Noah's ark, you will see that one accout only knew Him as God, meaning He is God of all the universe, and the account as LORD .
The word Lord in Greek means authority, so when one calls upon the name of the Lord this means they know God and are known by God, because they call Him by name and have faith in His Word/Christ as their authority to live by.
Those who only know Him as God, do not usually pray or acknowledge Him or know and accept His Word, but He is still God no matter what they believe.
--
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.KJV
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(18 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:01 PM
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Did Noah or Ezra speak Greek?
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Posts:
4,155
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(19 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:04 PM
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OK, that's all good, the only disagreement we have here is the false trinity doctrine.
And if you believe in that disagreement,,then that supports Astounded's JW Jesus is in hell doctrine....ahahahahaha.
--
"Hence sacred Tradition and Scripture are bound together in a close and reciprocal relationship… Scripture is the utterance of God as it is set down in writing under the guidance of God's Spirit; Tradition preserves the word of God as it was entrusted to the apostles by Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit, and transmits it to their successors,so that these in turn,enlightened by the Spirit of truth,may faithfully preserve,expound and disseminate the Word by their preaching.”(Dei Verbum, 9).
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Posts:
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(20 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:04 PM
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Well then I guess you will just have to say that the Father is God, His Word is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
There is no other way to put it.
Jesus is God's Word, plain and period!
Do you believe any of these God breathed scriptures?
John 1:1-3
1:1 IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD .
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 ALL THING WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV
WHAT DOES GOD USE TO CREATE? YOUR ANSWER SHOULD BE "THE WORD". NOW WHO IS JESUS? YOUR ANSWER SHOULD BE "THE WORD".
1 John 1:1-2
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of THE WORD OF LIFE;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen IT, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
KJV
Rev 19:13
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD.
KJV
HOW MUCH MORE PLAIN CAN IT GET? JESUS IS GOD'S WORD!
--
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.KJV
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Posts:
6,857
From:
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(21 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:16 PM
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You know, it wasn't like I was expecting anyone to agree with me on this. 
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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Posts:
5,451
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(22 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:16 PM
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Only when ordering the shawirma plate.
--
I will defend to the death your right to offend me.
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Posts:
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(23 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:22 PM
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No they did not but to call God LORD means to know Him personally and He knows you, because you know His Word as your Lord/your authority and you call upon the Word in times of trouble.
Adam knew Him as LORD, yet the 6th day men who were given the earth, not the garden, knew Him only as God
--
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.KJV
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Posts:
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(24 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:25 PM
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It's God's game, let him play it the way he wants to play it.
Yer just an idea of God in his game.
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Posts:
6,857
From:
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(25 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 9:30 PM
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You do know that everywhere you see the word LORD in all caps, this is where some group of apostates have intentionally replaced the divine name right?
Check the preface in your Bibles, you will see that explanation.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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(26 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 10:23 PM
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Used by the Jews over 7,000 times in the Hebrew
> scriptures.
>
> BIG LIE! Even your Watch Tower Society stated it was
> coined up in the 13th century. Want the WTS
> reference? Either you do not know your own sect's
> material or you all on your own make declarations
> based on false presuppositions.
Don't get your panties all in a bunch.
I was talking about the tetragrammaton
Obviously you did after reading my rebuttal. Yeah right! It is amazing to what extremes a 19th century cult will go to prove their novelties.
YHWH represents the Hebrew letters "Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh." It was the name God gave for Himself when Moshe inquired of Him. In most modern translations it is usually written "LORD" (in capital letters) or "HaShem" (in the Hebrew Tanach, it means "The Name").
It has been improperly translated "Jehovah," based on a German bastardization of YHWH and "Adonai." The word "Jehovah" does not appear in the Hebrew language and is simply incorrect. YHWH is probably pronounced "Yahweh," and means "I Am That I Am." The implication is that God is completely self-sufficient.
The 'J' Didn't Exist
One of the most obvious reasons that "Jesus" and "Jehovah" are incorrect is found in their common initial letter, J. Most comprehensive dictionaries and encyclopedias demonstrate that the letter J is of recent derivation. The Encyclopedia American contains the following on J:
The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J,I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J,I) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England.
The letter J developed from the letter I and was used to avoid confusion. Chamber's Encyclopedia says that in medieval handwriting the small i was liable to be confused with one of the strokes of a preceding or following u. Therefore an oblique stroke and later a dot was often made over the i. Alternately, the i was prolonged below the line.
The J and its I sound is still used in the German language. In the names of the months of January, June, and July, the German keeps the "ee" sound much like our Y. For example, July is pronounced "Yulee."
Note the substantiating comments of the Encyclopedia Americana regarding the letter J:
It is one of the few permanent additions to those alphabets, made in medieval or modern times. More exactly, it was not an addition, but a differentiation from an existing letter, I, which in Latin, besides being a vowel (as in index), had also the consonantal value of "Y" (as in maior, pronounced "mayor")
At a later stage, the symbol "J" was used for distinctive purposes, particularly when the "I" had to be written initially (or in conjunction with another "I"). Either symbol used initially generally had the consonantal sound of "Y" (as in year) so that the Latin pronunciation of either Ianuarius or Januarius was though the spelling was "Yanuarius." While in some words of Hebrew and other origin (such as Hallelujah or Junker), "J" has the phonetic value of "Y."
Because the letter J derived from the I, and had the same sound, it was classed a vowel. The letter I comes from the Greek "iota," which is the Hebrew "yothe." Both have a vowel sound. There is no "J" sound in the Anglo-Saxon, let alone Hebrew, and no Roman form to work from. The J was first pronounced as the I until the printing press was introduced. Gradually, the letter J acquired its own sound through French influence.
NICE TRY BS. MORE JW LIES!
As for the RCC and Yahweh? LOL The Jews were not allowed to say God's name? AND? What is the big deal? Didn't you know that is why the Jerusalem Bible got heat in 1966 because it used Yahweh in its print?
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Posts:
7,684
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(27 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 3, 2009 12:04 AM
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You quibble about tiny details in a theology on which you agree on 99%. You spit fire and venom in a neverending argument between the same sides, drawn and forever convinced before a single word is uttered.
Can you say you really think quoting scripture will convince a JW to become a catholic?
Do you think any scripture could convince you to become a JW?
It's all ridiculous.
--
...it's turtles all the way down.
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Posts:
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From:
Lakeside Trailer Park
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(28 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 3, 2009 7:49 AM
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I was wondering when the "J" arguemenet was coming.
Let's illustrate.
My name is Michael.
Spanish speakers would call me Miguel
Russian speakers would call me Mikhail
Frenchmen would call me Michele, pronounced like a girls name!
Should I be offended by any of those pronounciations??
Of course not, because I know that they are addressing me and I can appreciate being called by my name no matter how it's pronounced. And I am just a man.
How much greater is the Almighty in this regard? He can read the heart.
Next excuse.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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Posts:
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(29 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 3, 2009 8:01 AM
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Of course, I will expect attacks with the same tired old excuses i.e. taken out of context, improper interpretation, etc. etc.
In other words, you are expecting disagreement based on standard hermeneutical principles.
--
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? - Psalm 2:1
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Posts:
870
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(30 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 3, 2009 8:27 AM
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Why do you make such a big deal of it yourselves , if as you say it doesn't matter?
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