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For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 2:11 PM
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the Name of Jehovah, or YHWH if you wish.
We have this scripture;
Acts 15:13
After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym′e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.
Here we see that not only did the first century Christians use and acknowledge the divine name, but expected true Christians to embrace God's name with his approval.
Of course, I will expect attacks with the same tired old excuses i.e. taken out of context, improper interpretation, etc. etc.
So, does it not seem logical that true Christians today should embrace and use God's name today?
Sadly, there are some that deny the name and COMMAND their followers to deny the divine name.
Behold:
www.catholic.org/ae/music/story.php?id=29022
The decree is contained in a letter to bishops from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments dated June 29 and addressed to Episcopal conferences around the world.
VATICAN (CISA) - The Vatican has ruled that the word Yahweh must not "be used or pronounced" in songs and prayers during Catholic masses.
The decree is contained in a letter to bishops from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments dated June 29 and addressed to Episcopal conferences around the world.
"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.
The Tetragrammaton is YHWH, the four consonants of the ancient Hebrew name for God.
"As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord,'" the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word "Kyrios" and Latin scholars translated it to "Dominus"; both also mean Lord.
"Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds," the letter said. "Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."
The two Vatican officials noted that "Liturgiam Authenticam," the congregation's 2001 document on liturgical translations, stated that "the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew Tetragrammaton and rendered in Latin by the word 'Dominus,' is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning."
"Notwithstanding such a clear norm, in recent years the practice has crept in of pronouncing the God of Israel's proper name," the letter said. "The practice of vocalizing it is met with both in the reading of biblical texts taken from the Lectionary as well as in prayers and hymns, and it occurs in diverse written and spoken forms," including Yahweh, Jahweh and Yehovah.
So, if one were to be one of those many people of the nations that were to be the people of God, by bearing his name, why does christendom do everything in their power to deny the divine name.
Please don't give "because no one really knows the correct pronounciation".
Jehovah and Jesus read the hearts, they know about individual sincerity.
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".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 4:18 PM
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New Testament Greek always uses the word "Lord," and never "Jehovah," even in quotes from the Old Testament (OT). Encyclopedia Judaica, Webster’s Encyclopedia, Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia and countless others agree that the title "Jehovah" is erroneous, grammatically impossible, and was never used by the Jews.
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(3 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 4:54 PM
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Used by the Jews over 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:03 PM
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Jehovah is a holy God, and a clean God. He would certainly not let unholy dirty religions who have adultrated themsleves with this world by getting invovled in its politics and its wars with representing his holy name.
It is of no surprise that no one inside Christendom has a good response to this question. For really it is of Jehovah God's doing. He has manuvered things so that they do not use his name, not giving them the right to do so.
The only group of people on earth that are allowed to use Jehovah's name, by God, are the ones that he approves of, and that are clean and holy as he is.
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And they will have to know that I am Jehovah. - Ezekiel 38:23.
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Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:05 PM
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Used by the Jews over 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures.
BIG LIE! Even your Watch Tower Society stated it was coined up in the 13th century. Want the WTS reference? Either you do not know your own sect's material or you all on your own make declarations based on false presuppositions.
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(6 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:21 PM
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VV, are you akin to Charlton Heston? I can
just hear you now!
...but Chuck wasn't just acting......
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(7 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:23 PM
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It is of no surprise that no one inside Christendom has a good response to this question.
I do.
The Vatican caved into the Orthodox Jews who objected to the use of the word Yahweh.
I would have told the Jews to stick it until they removed the derogatory stuff from the Talmud about Jesus.
How's that for an answer?????
BTW, what do the Jews call you? Jehovah's Witnesses??? Nope. People of the Name....ahahahaha
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"Hence sacred Tradition and Scripture are bound together in a close and reciprocal relationship… Scripture is the utterance of God as it is set down in writing under the guidance of God's Spirit; Tradition preserves the word of God as it was entrusted to the apostles by Christ our Lord and the Holy Spirit, and transmits it to their successors,so that these in turn,enlightened by the Spirit of truth,may faithfully preserve,expound and disseminate the Word by their preaching.”(Dei Verbum, 9).
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(8 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:43 PM
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> Used by the Jews over 7,000 times in the Hebrew
> scriptures.
>
> BIG LIE! Even your Watch Tower Society stated it was
> coined up in the 13th century. Want the WTS
> reference? Either you do not know your own sect's
> material or you all on your own make declarations
> based on false presuppositions.
Don't get your panties all in a bunch.
I was talking about the tetragrammaton.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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(9 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 5:56 PM
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Acts 15:13
After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym′e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.
I think you told 4faith how she takes the bible to literally. Well a people for his name seems like it means something other then a literal singular name for God.
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(10 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 6:18 PM
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OK, what do you think Steve?
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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4,202
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(11 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 7:22 PM
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biblestudent,
I have tried and tried to straighten this out many times with no success. YHWH is the Father, Jesus is "the Word". The Father uses "the Word" to create all things. Jesus is the spoken Word that comes to man from God.
It is just as hard to get you to understand that Jesus is not the Father, but is part of God as the Word, as it is to tell the Catholics/Christian's that Jesus is not the Father, who we are to worship, but he comes from God.
You say he is not part of God at all, and they say he is God all and all. Both are totally wrong.
The Father, The Word and the Holy Ghost are all 3 one. The Father is Spirit, The Word is Spirit and the Holy Ghost is Spirit. Jesus said, that the Father is greater than I, he says you are to ask/pray to the Father, not to Jesus. The Word is our mediator, we are to obey the Word, love the Word, and honor the Word. All things were made by the Word and through the Word.
The Father speaks the Word and Jesus the Word heals us, and creates as the Father commands. Jesus is the Torah, he is the literal Word of God. That is why he is said to be the light of the world, because the Word of God brings light/goodness to all who hear him.
If you notice in many of the beginnings of the Chapters of the New Testament you always have God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ mentioned. The Father, can not accept you, if you do not accept the Word, Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:3
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,KJV
1 Thess 1:1
1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.KJV
2 Tim 1:2
2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
Titus 1:4
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
KJV
2 John 3
3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
KJV
Jude 1
1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
KJV
--
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.KJV
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Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 7:39 PM
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Hey biblestudent, you bragged about a dill pickle recipe in AM's potato salad recipe. Share? I even posted the recipe for the perfect bread and butter pickle.
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I will defend to the death your right to offend me.
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(13 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 7:47 PM
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What does it mean to be "a people for His Name" when referencing the scripture at Acts 15:14?
The Bible shows that the very existence of the true Christian congregation is connected with God’s name. The apostle Peter explained that God “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.” (Acts 15:14) So God’s true people must treat his name as holy and make it known throughout the earth. In fact, knowing that name is necessary for salvation, as the Bible says: “For ‘everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’”—Romans 10:13, 14.
Now this name is not to be considered some type of magical charm. Surely that is not what is meant. But certainly it must signify that Jehovah would gather a people who not only know, use and glorify his name, but who endeavour to the very best of their ability to live up to what that name represents.
What does that name represent?
Well now that's the point. And this is the work that I and over seven million of my brothers are engaged in. It was laid upon all who would be followers of Jesus that they should go forth and preach the Good News of God's Kingdom to all the inhabited earth. Furthermore they must teach all the things that Jesus had taught them. At Matthew 6:9 it is recorded that we should pray for God's Name to be sanctified (hallowed) and that his will should be accomplished on Earth as it is in Heaven.
The name of Jehovah has such powerful meaning. But that we pronounce it Jehovah or Yahweh or whatever is not the point. In German it is one way, in Spanish it is another and in Hebrew it is forbidden to say. So what is the fuss?
That an English transliteration appeared that is still recognized does not invalidate the meaning of the name.
Now, let those of us who are men, be men. Let those of you who are ladies, be ladies.
Pursue what is known and learn more. Expand your horizons by expanding your mind. Be not the sort that shrink back, for those who do so actually pursue their own destruction. Rather be the sort that have faith to the preserving alive of your very soul. (Hebrews 10:39)
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You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. -JOHN 8:32.
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(14 of 30)
Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 8:07 PM
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> OK, what do you think Steve?
Its pretty simple id you have the creect translation.
See below from the DR:
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me. Simon hath related how God first visited to take to the Gentiles, a people to his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written: After these things I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down: and the ruins thereof I will rebuild. And I will set it up: That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lard, who doth these things.
To the Lord was his own work known from the beginning of the world. For which cause, judge that they who from among the Gentiles are converted to God are not to be
disquieted:
It is stated a couple of times. It simply means to convert people(gentiles) to the worship of the True God. It has nothing to do with using His Name or how His Name is used or spelled or pronounced..
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Re: For Those of You Who Deny...........
Jul 2, 2009 8:26 PM
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> That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and
> d all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the
> Lard, who doth these things.
Says the same thing, True Christians would be the people for his name.
I use the Douay also. It's very good for an expanded understanding. The same ancient documents used for that translation was used for the NWT also.
--
".....he reasoned with them from the scriptures." Acts 17:2
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake."
Matthew 5:11
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