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Posts:
15,734
Registered:
7/15/04
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(46 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:44 AM
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> > Lets recap our oh so great President's current
> > foreign policy highlights.
> >
> > First he announces the closing of GITMO within a
> year
> > without a clear plan on what to do with the
> > detainees. As of this writing there still is no
> clear
> > plan on what to do with them and we are less
> than 6
> > months away from the planned closing. A
> fabulous
> > start.
> >
>
> Which means that we take the moral high ground on
> prisoner abuse. Which means that we take away one of
> the strongest arguments that the Taliban and al-Qaeda
> have for recruiting angry young men who might find
> terrorism a suitable response to the "Evil Empire".
>
I see, so we take the moral high ground even though there is a possibility that it will cost American lives? Tell me, what right to you have to foist your moral standards on people whose lives could be endangered because of it?
And perhaps you would like to explain what the strongest arguments were for the Taliban an al Qaeda prior to Gitmo?
Gitmo was simply just another "crisis not gone to waste" for the Taliban and AQ. Seems they too have read Saul Alinsky.
> > Second, he goes to Europe and begs forgiveness
> for
> > America being an arrogant nation. The European
> > nations thank him for his apologies by refusing
> to
> > take any GITMO detainees and making no new
> > contributions to the war in Afghanistan.
> >
>
> It means that we end the arrogant buffoonery that
> defined the prior Presidency. What did that arrogant
> buffoonery ever do for us other than cost American
> lives? Next!
>
Would that be the same arrogant buffoonery that liberated Europe? And are you not proud of your accomplishments while you bash this nation for being proud of our accomplishments as a nation? So personal pride is fine but national pride is to be despised?
> > Third he bows while meeting the Saudi King
> >
>
> What's the problem?
>
Our president bows to no one. What is it about that you don't understand. It is for the same reason our flag is never dipped in honor of another nation.
> > Forth, he fails to drive a wedge in Iran's
> ruling
> > class and to create doubt across the world on
> the
> > legitimacy of the Iranian government. What did
> he
> > fail to do? Oh, just to say he disapproved of
> the
> > regime crack down that's all.
> >
>
> The Iranian government may have created the illusion
> of internal dissent to trick us into doing something
> stupid. That government has done enough to create
> doubt about its good will (examples: its President's
> cranky and mean-spirited Holocaust denial, its
> obvious rigging of elections, and its brutal
> repression of dissent).
>
May have, could have, might have. All suppositions on your part.
>
> > fifth, he follows up the Iran whiff by
> supporting the
> > wannabe dictator of Honduras after he is ousted.
> The
> > dictator was ousted with the unanimous approval
> of
> > the Honduran congress after President Zelaya
> openly
> > made it his intention to violate the
> constitution and
> > to make and illegal seizure of power. The
> ousting was
> > bloodless, with an interim President taking the
> helm
> > until the next round of elections can be held
> in
> > November.
> >
>
> Wait and see.
>
Wait for what? See what?
> > Somehow President not so bright has objected to
> these
> > moves despite the very democratic motivations
> behind
> > them.
> >
>
> I get it: "Democratic -- you like it; "un-democratic:
> you don't like it".
>
No, you don't get it. One is a party, the other is a policy.
> > Folks, as I list these Obama has been President
> for
> > only six months. I'm tired of amateur hour, we
> need
> > to call for protests nationwide to let this man
> know
> > that we are not going to sit back and accept
> this
> > garbage anymore. 2010 is not close enough, fix
> it now
> > or there will be a way found to impeach him and
> get
> > him of the white house.
> >
> > -DD
>
> Dubya was far, far worse. He created diplomatic
> messes with countries long our friends through his
> dimwitted bungling.
>
Like who? Those who were not affected by 9-11? Those who have cratered to the socialist movement, abdigating their own personal freedoms in order to "go along to git along"? Those whose own systems are in disarray? It seems you would prefer this nation to be a follower, not a leader.
> I could make a case that he set
> the American economy back at least thirty years
> through his enabling of corruption on a gigantic
> scale.
>
You could make that case. You would be wrong, but you could make it.
> Impeachment is for "high crimes and misdemeanors" --
> such as the solicitation of collection of bribes, or
> non-performance of the duties of President. It's not
> for incompetence or unpopularity. Any overthrow of
> the President through unconstitutional means is a
> coup, which sounds like what you are asking for. It
> will take until at least 2010 for the GOP to get
> majorities in the House and Senate to even start
> impeachment proceedings.
>
> You speak of impeachment: do you believe that Dubya
> deserved to be impeached and removed for the
> crime of lying to Congress to start a war?
>
Do you believe that certain Congressmen should be impeached for lying about what they knew and when they knew it (as they were all claiming to have information regarding Iraq that only they were privy to) because they decided to pander to the far left? Do you think Congressmen should be impeached for leaking sensitive national security information to the New York Times that they had access to as a member of the Congressional Intelligence Committee?
The problem I have with you lefties is that you are so selective in your facts. You ignore the very things told to you by your own party members if it doesn't mess with your opinions, yet when they flip on a position for political expendiency, you say "Gee, they were wrong last time but now they must be telling me the truth."
You seem easily lead.
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(47 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 9:50 AM
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You don't understand yet. Obama's taking the US in a new foreign policy direction of victory through example and depriving the bad guys of propaganda bases. Everyone wants to be like America if given the chance.
First off, you never addressed the fact that Hizballah never held a majority in Lebanon during the Bush years.
Secondly, you never mentioned anything about he parties that were elected in Lebanon or their leaders. Who are they? What is their platform? Who is the PM right now and what is his immediate significance?
Find the answer to these kiddo and you'll find out that surprise surprise, the Lebanese voted for their own conscience and their own well being.
As for the nice wikipedia article, the only thing I have to point out is that it was a conflict between Israel and Hizballah. Are you now going to claim that as President, Obama could have prevented the Israelis from their actions against Hizballah?
LOL, nice try sci, but from the looks of it I have a pretty complete picture of what's going on while you seem to be motivated by a blind faith in Obama in which all good deeds must be ascribed to him.
Not a good start, let's see if you can up with anything better.
Oh gosh, all you did was respond with a few more feel good paragraphs on Obama, some anti-bush comments, and left it at that. Oh well, if that's the best you can do than I suppose the strength of my original arguments remains intact.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
821
From:
Aurora, CO
Registered:
12/14/99
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(48 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:52 AM
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I think there is a tremendous contradiction that people who want to close Gitmo don't understand:
Prisoners get treated far BETTER in Gitmo, than they would if they were shipped off to Supermax prisons in the US.
Try comparing the treatment the Gitmo detainees receive now, and compare it to Supermax conditions.
If you went to a Supermax prison, and gave the inmates a choice, most would be happier in Gitmo.
But the Gitmo closers are asking everyone to believe that by incarcerating the suspected terrorists in far worse conditions than they currently face, it will somehow be more "humane", and will give these people a more positive view of the US.
Are you people for real?
"Denial is a great place. I've heard the summers are nice there."
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Posts:
6,652
From:
California
Registered:
5/7/06
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(49 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:53 AM
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I see, so we take the moral high ground even though there is a possibility that it will cost American lives? Tell me, what right to you have to foist your moral standards on people whose lives could be endangered because of it?
You misunderstand the argument. We take the high moral ground to save American lives. I think the thousands dead in Iraq pretty much proves taking the Bush/Cheney approach cost American lives.
Let me make this as clear as I can: Obama's foreign policy is aimed at making America safer, decreasing violence, and starving terrorist movements.
And perhaps you would like to explain what the strongest arguments were for the Taliban an al Qaeda prior to Gitmo?
The question is this: did Gitmo make the talliban weaker or stronger? I think the evidence is overwhelming that Gitmo made the Talliban stronger. The NIE concluded that (do you need the link for the thousandth time?). Sure, there will be small terrorist movements always. But your brand of foreign policy turned them into large, national movements. Obama is shrinking them back to small ones. See Pakistan, where the people are now turning against the Taliban.
For example, this is less than a month old at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/world/asia/05refugees.html:
“It’s the Taliban that’s responsible for our misery,” said Fakir Muhammed, a refugee from Swat, who, like many who had experienced Taliban rule firsthand, welcomed the military campaign to push the insurgents out.
The growing support for the fight against the Taliban could be an important turning point for Pakistan...
Obama's policies are working. The good guys win if we just let the circumstances allow the good guys to fight in their own nations.
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Posts:
6,652
From:
California
Registered:
5/7/06
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(50 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 9:57 AM
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Dust devil - those are my arguments. Hezbollah had majority support in internal opinion poll. They were not the majority on their own, but they were the largest part of the majority ruling coalition. You win on technicality on that small point.
But Hezbollah's position has now changed thanks to Obama. You'll note I quoted from a CSM source that also said it was due to Obama. I can find lots of other quotes as well that say the same thing.
It's Iraq, Iran. Lebanon, Gaza, and Pakistan, and many other places less dramatically, like Egypt. The movement is clearly occurring in our favor.
You can deny it now, because it is in its begining phase. But 4 years from now, you'll have to admit that I was right.
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(51 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 10:00 AM
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Sci,
Once again makes the assertion that the people of Pakistan are turning against the Taliban because of President OBama.
All good things can happen when you place your faith in Obama, as is clearly evident. (rolls eyes)
Now for the educated view. Swat was placed under attack and only conquored during the later part of the Bush administration. The local support for the radical views was never really supported, and following many examples of abuse by the Taliban after imposing sharia law the people are turning against the Taliban because, surprise surprise, they kinda don't like being subjugated.
Sci, thanks for the perfect insight into exactly why i termed OBama's foreign policy "amateur" hour so far. With folks like you making as many ignorant statements you have so far you do much to make my case for me. I should be happy about this, but the fact is i care about my nation and want the best for it. How bout you?
If you do, do us a favor and please educate yourself before opening that gaping hole in the middle of your face again. Softball is a fun game, but i need someone who actually knows what their talking about.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(52 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 10:03 AM
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You're arguement is that they had a majority support by a poll? A poll that by it's question only asked if they supported Hizballah keeping Israel out of their own country?
Do I really have to explain the absurdity of that to you? Do I really have to explain what a "majority" control in government is? Is this really the limit of your ability to think? Do you really consider yourself smart? Frankly, I'm not impressed.
BTW, still waiting for you to tell me about Lebanon's government. I mean you know so much about his policy that you call it brilliant, so those questions should be easy ones and ones that prove your point.
Oh, and retype all the same arguements you want. If you can't respond to my counter arguements they have all the weight of helium and I won't waste more time retyping them for someone whose not interested in learning.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
6,652
From:
California
Registered:
5/7/06
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(53 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 10:18 AM
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BTW, still waiting for you to tell me about Lebanon's government
Huh? I liked to the article, and stated it clearly. Hezbollah was not the majority. I granted you a technical victory on that point. But Hezbollah had wide majority public support at least in 2006 and, as described in the CSM article I linked, their loss last month was a surprise highly influence by Obama. Obviously, it cannot be proved, but I believe if McCain had won here, Hezbollah would have won there.
If you can't respond to my counter arguements
I'm not sure what your counter arguments are. As far as I can see, you agree that there is positive movement in Lebanon. You agree that there is positive movement in Iran. You agree that there is positive movement in Pakistan. All you are saying is "it's not to Obama's credit." I guess you think all this positive movement is just coincidence.
Fine. I don't mind. I've said many times, when a Republican is in the White House, we argue about who deserves the blame for all the bad things that happen. When a Democrat is in the White House, we argue about who deserves the credit for all the good things that happen.
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(54 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 10:49 AM
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Huh? I liked to the article, and stated it clearly. Hezbollah was not the majority. I granted you a technical victory on that point.
You never acknowledged it till now. So now all you have to do is admit your slight against Bush was unfounded.
But Hezbollah had wide majority public support at least in 2006 and, as described in the CSM article I linked, their loss last month was a surprise highly influence by Obama. Obviously, it cannot be proved,
Hizballah's support was due to a desire to keep Israel out of their country. Again it's time to for you to acknowlegde the absurity of that arguement.
As for proof, I won't and have not asked for any such thing. The only thing I've said is for you to explain why these are "victories" for Obama's foreigh policy. I've even given you a roadmap to argue you're point by suggesting you look up the current government in Lebanon and find out a few things about them.
The fact that you keep dodgeing this in favor of excuses and the retyping of old arguements just tells me that your intellectually lazy at best, and dishonest at worse.
I'm not sure what your counter arguments are.
They were made in my first response to you kiddo.
As far as I can see, you agree that there is positive movement in Lebanon. You agree that there is positive movement in Iran. You agree that there is positive movement in Pakistan. All you are saying is "it's not to Obama's credit." I guess you think all this positive movement is just coincidence.
And you think everything good in the world is a result of Obama? Gosh, how do you argue against such "solid" logic as that. lol
Alright pal, here we go again.
My arguement, unlike yours, is a bit deeper than that, and like I said, I'm not going to retype it for someone who has no interest in learning.
You've never been able to counter a single arguement I've made and instead retyped the same drivel as a response. If that's all you got than the strength of my arguements stands and sadly, wasn't even competantly challenged by any of you on these boards.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
8,088
From:
What Time Is It? It's Pay Back Time!
Registered:
10/25/06
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(55 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 12:04 PM
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Deedee wants a military coup in the USA!
The facts support it!
--
"Facts Are Stupid Things" - Ronald Reagan
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Posts:
8,088
From:
What Time Is It? It's Pay Back Time!
Registered:
10/25/06
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(56 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 12:16 PM
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> > Please provide a link to the Honduran
> constitution to
> > back up that assertion.
>
> I already translated it yesterday. I am not doing it
> again.
>
> > Technically he didn't seek a second term. He
> simply
> > sought to hold a non-binding referendum on the
> > subject of modifying the constitution to allow
> second
> > terms.
>
> Evidently, the Honduran Supreme Court disagrees with
> you. They are the entity that made the charge.
>
> > It's as if our military were to remove from
> office a
> > president who proposes a constitutional
> amendment to,
> > oh, I don't know, ban flag burning, or making
> > marriage legal only between a man and a woman.
>
> However, If anything was specifically banned by the
> constitution and called for immediate removal in that
> document in this contingency. i would leave it to
> those who know the document the best to make that
> decision.
>
> > No, but if you say it, it's always wrong 
>
> Yeah, the usual liberal line.
Honduras has had 12 constitutions in its history.
The current constitution was approved in 1982 and has been amended about 22 times - about once a year - since then.
Why then couldn't it be amended again?
And what is so sacrosanct about such a variable, temporary document?
--
"Facts Are Stupid Things" - Ronald Reagan
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(57 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 3:59 PM
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Huh, one post finaly got poofed. All things considered this thread has had been held up nicely so far, but hey, I guess when you acknowledge the shortcomings of the liberals on this board they do run to that advise button pretty quick.
As for stumblies last reply.
All of that has been noted already kiddo. I'll only point out that again you are supporting the return of a wannabe dictator all because Obama says so, showing you and the other libs here have zilch ability to think for yourselves.
As for the constitution, apparently it is important enough to the Hondurans that a unanimous Congress and Supreme Court decided to uphold it.
But hey, thanks for going on record with saying how unimportant constitutions are, and of course, thanks for the bump.
Now please see if you can rub two brain cells together, and see if a miracle happens and you have an original thought.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
6,918
Registered:
4/15/06
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(58 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 4:24 PM
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lol, they delete my reply as well DD. i was just wondering if Sci lived in Kos land..and if he ever read a real newspaper.
--
"Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."
Sir Isaac Newton
"Other than the bombs they strap to their chests, I have absolutely no idea what makes the Palestinians tick" Dennis Miller
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(59 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 4:58 PM
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Mrs. R,
I really is funny. Sci is one of the one's the left here on this board tries to hold up as some great source of knowledge, and yet here he showed an amazing level of ignorance conserning foreign policy.
Heck, as I pointed out I literally gave him a map from which to contruct his arguements and he still couldn't come up with anything.
The left on this board has displayed their ineptitude in amazing fashion in this thread.
Not bad considering I was just T'd off about Honduras and decided to type up a little summary on the fly.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
8,088
From:
What Time Is It? It's Pay Back Time!
Registered:
10/25/06
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(60 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 6:07 PM
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If DeeDee had an ounce of intelligence he'd realize that the Honduras constitution is a moving target, having been amended at least once a year for the past 28 years, and in fact it's the 12 constitution that nation has had (not counting all the amendments to the current one).
What does all this mean? Well to an intelligent person (which would leave out DeeDee), it means that the Honduras constitution has been a political football for most of the nation's history. It is not the same sort of sacred document that the US constitution is; but of course zealots like DeeDee can't tell the difference because to them everything is a political football.
--
"Facts Are Stupid Things" - Ronald Reagan
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