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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(31 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 2, 2009 5:03 PM
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The proof is in the results. Obama's foreign policy is brilliant, and it's generating excellent results so far.
Brilliant? This should be interesting
In Lebannon, a pro-West group won a surprising victory (compare that to Hezbollah winning during Bush's tenure
First off, how does the Obama get credit for the Lebanese election?
Second, Hizballah never had a majority of power during Bush's administration.
In Iran, the people are fuming and demonstrating because their pro-Western candidate was clearly cheated.
First off, really? You're giving Obama credit for the protests in Iran even starting?
Musavi is a "pro-westerner" really? Have you read a single solitary thing about these protests or were you too busy bowinng at your make shift alter to Obama?
I don't even need to say a thing here, if you're that far off your rocker I can simply highlight it as is.
Well let's see what else you have. So far it's so little that I'm pretty sure you'll next comment on how awesome a job he does putting on his pants in the morning. A little objectivity please.
In Iraq, people are celebrating on the streets, and praising America. American soldiers are now out of harm's way. Iraqis are learning to stand on their own two feet, and they are looking at Iran and seeing, hey, this is a lot better than rule by Ayatollah.
Right, cuz President Obama was for the war, for the surge, and supported the SOFA agreement that was signed in December 2008.
In Pakistan, we replaced a military dictator (friend though he was to Bush, he still seized power using the army to overthrow a democratically elected leader).
We? Where do you get this stuff? Musharraf resigned from power prior to Obama coming into office. Can you even name the President or Prime minister of Pakistan right now? LOL, I had really hoped for some nice counter arguements but frankly you're about as tough as stumbly. Way too easy.
For someone who clearly thinks a lot of himself, you're nothing special pal. Time to read up on current events and come to an actual conclusion. Do that, come up with some real arguements and come back. Frankly, I expected better.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
6,918
Registered:
4/15/06
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(32 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 2, 2009 7:27 PM
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Lol, I can't believe sci actually said that, wow, does he live in Kos land and get no real information or what?
--
"Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."
Sir Isaac Newton
"Other than the bombs they strap to their chests, I have absolutely no idea what makes the Palestinians tick" Dennis Miller
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Posts:
782
Registered:
1/12/09
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(33 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:02 AM
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"The key word in that sentence is "former President." Obama had a good chance to put some actions to go along with his hyped Cairo speech by standing and offering moral support to the protestors. He is not President Bush and he could have found a ready audience to hear this, heck it was clear that this is what the protestors were seeking was moral support and a world showing doubt about the legitimacy of the election and a support for the reforms they wanted."
Dustdevil aren't you aware that citizens who took part in the protest are being tried right now? Even the British "offer of moral support" is being twisted by the clerics to imply that the protest was orchestrated by them, rather than it be a legitinmate independent uprising. It is but for a degree of restraint we've shown, that the clerics are not using even more fodder to tell the people this is a U.S.-British orchestrated uprising!
Moral support given by the world in one body is one thing, as it cannot be as easily manipulated. This has been done, and is going on now. Independent support from the U.S. is quite another, as we are seeing with the U.K. situation playing out.
Even beyong that, injecting ourselves into what has begun as a dispute between parties (the fairness of the election) is premature and self-defeating, primarily because it has not morphed yet into the real issue, which is the cleric system itself. The fact that the cleric system is the true culprit in Iran cannot cannot dawn on the majority of the Iranian people unless their suffering is contained withi the confines of the political and physical borders of Iran itself, without any outside interference from us that could be used as the real wedge to such enlightenment.
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Posts:
8,088
From:
What Time Is It? It's Pay Back Time!
Registered:
10/25/06
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(34 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:14 AM
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> All BS aside, Gitmo needs to be dealt with, and
> soon. It's a polotical hot-potato, and seeing it out
> to some kind of end would be a huge relief.
>
> I disagree. It may have made some people
> uncomfortable, but as I've said it was the best
> option for first dealing with combatants captured.
> Today I think it's still the best spot and that
> military tribunals should be used to review each
> case.
>
> -DD
You seem to be unaware that the US Supreme Court has decreed that Guantanamo detainees have rights to contest their detentions and have trials in Federal Court. This decision was announced in June 2008 in a stinging defeat for the Bush administration.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/SCOTUS/story?id=5048935&page=1
But Deedee wants to the president to ignore the US Supreme Court ruling and reinstate military tribunals. Let's see... it's ok for a US president to defy his own nation's supreme court, but not ok for a Honduran president to defy his own nation's supreme court?
Does anybody else beside me see the illogic in Deedee's "thinking"?
--
"Facts Are Stupid Things" - Ronald Reagan
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Posts:
15,734
Registered:
7/15/04
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(35 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:27 AM
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> "The key word in that sentence is "former President."
> Obama had a good chance to put some actions to go
> along with his hyped Cairo speech by standing and
> offering moral support to the protestors. He is not
> President Bush and he could have found a ready
> audience to hear this, heck it was clear that this is
> what the protestors were seeking was moral support
> and a world showing doubt about the legitimacy of the
> election and a support for the reforms they wanted."
>
> Dustdevil aren't you aware that citizens who took
> part in the protest are being tried right now?
>
Do you think that the Iranians who marched in those protests were not aware that their government would take those kinds of actions when they have watched their fellow Iranians hung from construction cranes based on claims they were "gay"? They did. And they took to the street anyway.
> Even
> the British "offer of moral support" is being twisted
> by the clerics to imply that the protest was
> orchestrated by them, rather than it be a legitinmate
> independent uprising. It is but for a degree of
> restraint we've shown, that the clerics are not using
> even more fodder to tell the people this is a
> U.S.-British orchestrated uprising!
>
Perhaps you have not been paying close attention. Khomenei started blaming the U.S. the first day of the protests. While President Panty Waist waffled.
We don't gain respect around the world by showing that we are not willing to take a stand against tyranny. Reagan did not say "This wall is none of our business".
> Moral support given by the world in one body is one
> thing, as it cannot be as easily manipulated. This
> has been done, and is going on now. Independent
> support from the U.S. is quite another, as we are
> seeing with the U.K. situation playing out.
>
If you are expecting one world support, you are dreaming. China and North Korea are tight with the clerical government of Iran. The U.N. has too many other Shari'ia nations. There will never be a "one world" voice.
Poland is now a free nation because of our "meddling".
> Even beyong that, injecting ourselves into what has
> begun as a dispute between parties (the fairness of
> the election) is premature and self-defeating,
> primarily because it has not morphed yet into the
> e real issue, which is the cleric system itself. The
> fact that the cleric system is the true culprit in
> Iran cannot cannot dawn on the majority of the
> Iranian people unless their suffering is contained
> withi the confines of the political and physical
> l borders of Iran itself, without any outside
> interference from us that could be used as the real
> wedge to such enlightenment.
>
Yet we, as a nation through our administration, is meddling in Honduras, when their president was removed through Constutitutional means.
It is sad that you cannot see the inconsistancies of this administration when it comes to foreign policy. The administration seems to be incapable of taking on the dictators of the world, chosing instead to placate them. This is not, I repeat, not the historic stand of the U.S.
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(36 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:32 AM
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Dustdevil aren't you aware that citizens who took part in the protest are being tried right now?
The point being?
Even the British "offer of moral support" is being twisted by the clerics to imply that the protest was orchestrated by them, rather than it be a legitinmate independent uprising.
Right, cuz by saying nothing the clerics have not already accused America of anything have they?
For the third time johnny, the point IS TO UNDERMIND THE REGIME AND THE CLERICS, NOT TO CATOR TO THEM AND WORRY ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT SAY.
Even beyong that, injecting ourselves into what has begun as a dispute between parties (the fairness of the election) is premature and self-defeating, primarily because it has not morphed yet into the real issue, which is the cleric system itself.
Violence and repression are not "real issues?" We could not have used this as a excellent way to highlight Iran's shortcomings to the entire world?
Johnny, exactly what situation has to arise, and how do you see it arising, where we or President zero actually live up the pledge to lead the free world and to support those that seek freedom in their own country? This was a great shot and he blew it because he's is a hemming and hawing weakling.
-DD
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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(37 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:36 AM
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You seem to be unaware that the US Supreme Court has decreed that Guantanamo detainees have rights to contest their detentions and have trials in Federal Court. This decision was announced in June 2008 in a stinging defeat for the Bush administration.
Or it could be that I disagree with the court and agree with the Bush administration.
But hey, I'm sure you've never disagreed witha supreme court ruling right?
Perhaps you need to be told what to think by others, but I'm able to form my own opinion and defend it without some insecure need to cite how many others agree with me. In the end it's the arguement that matters, not how many people agree with you.
It's called being able to form an independant though kiddo
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
782
Registered:
1/12/09
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(38 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:48 AM
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For the third time johnny, the point IS TO UNDERMIND THE REGIME AND THE CLERICS, NOT TO CATOR TO THEM AND WORRY ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT SAY.
I'll say to you for the fourth and last time my friend, that this has NOTHING to do with catering to the clerics, and everything to do with protecting the seed of a revolution!
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Posts:
85
From:
Michigan
Registered:
2/11/08
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(39 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:56 AM
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> Lets recap our oh so great President's current
> foreign policy highlights.
>
> First he announces the closing of GITMO within a year
> without a clear plan on what to do with the
> detainees. As of this writing there still is no clear
> plan on what to do with them and we are less than 6
> months away from the planned closing. A fabulous
> start.
>
Which means that we take the moral high ground on prisoner abuse. Which means that we take away one of the strongest arguments that the Taliban and al-Qaeda have for recruiting angry young men who might find terrorism a suitable response to the "Evil Empire".
> Second, he goes to Europe and begs forgiveness for
> America being an arrogant nation. The European
> nations thank him for his apologies by refusing to
> take any GITMO detainees and making no new
> contributions to the war in Afghanistan.
>
It means that we end the arrogant buffoonery that defined the prior Presidency. What did that arrogant buffoonery ever do for us other than cost American lives? Next!
> Third he bows while meeting the Saudi King
>
What's the problem?
> Forth, he fails to drive a wedge in Iran's ruling
> class and to create doubt across the world on the
> legitimacy of the Iranian government. What did he
> fail to do? Oh, just to say he disapproved of the
> regime crack down that's all.
>
The Iranian government may have created the illusion of internal dissent to trick us into doing something stupid. That government has done enough to create doubt about its good will (examples: its President's cranky and mean-spirited Holocaust denial, its obvious rigging of elections, and its brutal repression of dissent).
> fifth, he follows up the Iran whiff by supporting the
> wannabe dictator of Honduras after he is ousted. The
> dictator was ousted with the unanimous approval of
> the Honduran congress after President Zelaya openly
> made it his intention to violate the constitution and
> to make and illegal seizure of power. The ousting was
> bloodless, with an interim President taking the helm
> until the next round of elections can be held in
> November.
>
Wait and see.
> Somehow President not so bright has objected to these
> moves despite the very democratic motivations behind
> them.
>
I get it: "Democratic -- you like it; "un-democratic: you don't like it".
> Folks, as I list these Obama has been President for
> only six months. I'm tired of amateur hour, we need
> to call for protests nationwide to let this man know
> that we are not going to sit back and accept this
> garbage anymore. 2010 is not close enough, fix it now
> or there will be a way found to impeach him and get
> him of the white house.
>
> -DD
Dubya was far, far worse. He created diplomatic messes with countries long our friends through his dimwitted bungling. I could make a case that he set the American economy back at least thirty years through his enabling of corruption on a gigantic scale.
Impeachment is for "high crimes and misdemeanors" -- such as the solicitation of collection of bribes, or non-performance of the duties of President. It's not for incompetence or unpopularity. Any overthrow of the President through unconstitutional means is a coup, which sounds like what you are asking for. It will take until at least 2010 for the GOP to get majorities in the House and Senate to even start impeachment proceedings.
You speak of impeachment: do you believe that Dubya deserved to be impeached and removed for the crime of lying to Congress to start a war?
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Posts:
8,088
From:
What Time Is It? It's Pay Back Time!
Registered:
10/25/06
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(40 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 8:58 AM
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It's not a simple matter of just disagreeing with the Supreme Court.
You want Obama to openly defy the court and bring back military tribunals.
Why would it be ok to do that, while you support the military overthrow of a Honduran president who also tried to defy an order from his country's supreme court?
Bit of a double standard, don't you think?
Guess you don't have a rebuttal for that, since you're dancing all around the basic issue here.
--
"Facts Are Stupid Things" - Ronald Reagan
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(41 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:17 AM
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I'll say to you for the fourth and last time my friend, that this has NOTHING to do with catering to the clerics, and everything to do with protecting the seed of a revolution!
And doing nothing has sure proven to be great so far hasn't it.
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(42 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:26 AM
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Which means that we take the moral high ground on prisoner abuse. Which means that we take away one of the strongest arguments that the Taliban and al-Qaeda have for recruiting angry young men who might find terrorism a suitable response to the "Evil Empire".
Alright, but if you really beleive that then don't you find it a bit disappointing that they still have no plan on what to do with the detainees six months away from the closure date?
Also, how exactly does imprisioning them in say, Virginia, going to be any less of a recruitment tool? These thugs tell lies to misguided and ignorant kids in third world countries, I somehow doubt those same kids are going to come back at them now and say "but obama has closed gitmo."
It means that we end the arrogant buffoonery that defined the prior Presidency. What did that arrogant buffoonery ever do for us other than cost American lives? Next!
Would that be the same "arrogant buffoonery" that cost us lives in the first WTC bombing in 94, the embassy bombings in 98, the Khobar towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, and the USS COLE, and 9/11. It was "that buffonery" that cost american lives?
Can it.
You want to make the case that Americans can be arrogant, fine, I can agree with that. I can even agree to what Obama said, my issue is that as the leader of the free world you don't start off by highlighting how bad your own country is. You can't say things like "we have a history or abusing our allies" then go to those same allies and say "trust us." It's absurd to say the least.
The Iranian government may have created the illusion of internal dissent to trick us into doing something stupid
Something stupid like denouncing a crackdown that targets and kills it's own people? Right.
next.
Dubya was far, far worse. He created diplomatic messes with countries long our friends through his dimwitted bungling. I could make a case that he set the American economy back at least thirty years through his enabling of corruption on a gigantic scale.
Bush is no longer President. Obama is and it's his foreign policy that is in effect and that matters today.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
3,716
From:
Virginia Beach, VA
Registered:
11/3/06
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(43 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:28 AM
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It's not a simple matter of just disagreeing with the Supreme Court.
You want Obama to openly defy the court and bring back military tribunals.
First off, even Obama's admin is open to having a tribunal for some of the detainees down there.
Second, I made no such claim, I simply said tribunals were the best solution.
-DD
--
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government
-Thomas Jefferson
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Posts:
6,652
From:
California
Registered:
5/7/06
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(44 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy.
Jul 3, 2009 9:30 AM
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The proof is in the results. Obama's foreign policy is brilliant, and it's generating excellent results so far.
In Lebannon, a pro-West group won a surprising victory (compare that to Hezbollah winning during Bush's tenure
First off, how does the Obama get credit for the Lebanese election?
Second, Hizballah never had a majority of power during Bush's administration.
Responses: You don't understand yet. Obama's taking the US in a new foreign policy direction of victory through example and depriving the bad guys of propaganda bases. Everyone wants to be like America if given the chance. But putting Bush or
Cheney out there to be arrogant is as good as funidng terrorists with cash. Obama is depriving terrorist movements of motivation and they are drying up. Hezbollah loved Bush. They rose from a small, insignificant terror group pre-Bush to a mafor player. From Wikipedia:
According to a survey released by the "Beirut Center for Research and Information" on 26 July during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hezbollah's "retaliatory attacks on northern Israel",[185] a rise of 29 percentage points from a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, was the level of support for Hezbollah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah, along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis
That's the way to hand power to terrorists! But Obama has yanked the rug out from under them. In the elections last month, Obama was a major factor. As the Christian Science Monitor put it:
The verdict is in: Barack Obama's speech to the Muslim world last week has already had an impact, specifically in the surprise victory Sunday of a pro-Western coalition in legislative elections in Lebanon.
With the unexpected defeat of Lebanon's Hizbullah-led coalition, some regional analysts are wondering if Mr. Obama's approach – a respectful stance towards Islam, coupled with a firm rejection of the kind of violent extremism that has attracted some Muslims – might also have an impact in Friday's presidential elections in Iran.
This is a new American foreign policy direction. And while it may not feel as cowboy-good as "bring it on" and "your with us or against us," it is way more effective.
As I predicted, you'll see over the course of the next few years. Whereas Bush led the world into wars, terrorism, violence, hatred, and conflict, Obama is going to calm things down and let the superiority of the American way work its magic.
If things stay calm, America wins. It's as simple as that, yet Bush could never figure it out, because Bush never really trusted America or American institutions.
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Posts:
6,652
From:
California
Registered:
5/7/06
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(45 of 73)
Re: President Obama's amateur hour foreign policy
Jul 3, 2009 9:44 AM
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Huh? The stock market has rebounded convincingly since Bush was in office.
NO, you're mistaken; the actual graph of the market looks like the graph of the bouncing of an underinflated basketball. We'll call X-axis "T" (For time) and the Y-axis "H" for height. If you stopped pecking away at this for 5 minutes, you'd notice that we're AGAIN on the "down swing" portion of the cycle. This makes the 3rd bounce, since NWO-Bama installed a throne in the oval office, and the peaks are getting lower each bounce.
Not really. You can see a year's worth of DJIA at http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=. Last year at this time it was about 12000 through Sept. Then it dropped to about 8500 in October, and stayed near there through Jan. Then it fell pretty continuously to 6600 in March. Since then it was a nice recovery over April and May to 8500 and it's been there ever since. It hasn't gone much above 8800 or below 8000 since April. I don't see any "three bounces," nor do I see us on a significant down swing (were less than 600 points below the peak of the last 9 months).
Also the trade volume is low, indicating that the big investors don't see a lot happening one way or another. The stock market is calm, which is good. We need calm and time to recover.
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