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Posts:
6,568
From:
Kansas
Registered:
10/29/08
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(2 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 5:51 AM
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>>> .... it happened at a secure, U.S. Army military installation.
### I don't think the base really was all that secure. Certainly, they have guards, gates, rules, lots'o weapons, a command structure & cops. But they also had a highly concentrated population, almost all of whom were unarmed. To even get access to weapons was a slow & bureaucratic process, ill equipped to deal with what happened at Ft Hood. (Note that a cop hired to do traffic control brought the offender down.) Moreover, everyone on the base knew of this vulnerability.
This might seem secure to many, but look at it from a systems engineering perspective. The base (ie, the system) functions smoothly as long as everyone is non-violent when appropriate. But introduce someone bent on carnage, & we see an instability. There is always a finite probability of such a system flaw. Failure (ie, massive loss of life) is catastrophic (ie, system shut down) in this failure mode. The military is mostly a strongly hierarchical top-down structure. It's analogous to other highly centralized systems, eg, the old Soviet economy. Less vulnerable to this failure mode is a distributed system, where the lower level players have more autonomy. If, let's say, 5% of soldiers on a base had concealed weapons, the lone madman scenario could be defused faster & with fewer deaths. Of course, many will argue that one of these 5% would be more dangerous if they went berserk. Even then, the damage would be less than in a fully unarmed population.
The trade-off:
To be fully unarmed risks catastrophic failure. To have many concealed weapons risks more frequent, but less severe shootings. There is some optimum number of concealed weapons carriers which results in the lowest probability of wrongful deaths per year. This is what the states wrestle with in gun control policy.
A modest proposal:
Military bases should screen & select 10% of its inhabitants for training to carry concealed handguns 24-7. They should also introduce a formal system to discover who has symptoms of going off the deep end & then deal with them beforehand. It should be far different from mere "snitching", involving training everyone & making the reporting process smooth & minimally stigmatizing.
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Posts:
5,451
Registered:
12/14/08
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(3 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 6:23 AM
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It seems to me that they had a traitor in their midst. The base is supposed to be a safe haven from enemies. The signs were there, if only someone had been "intolerant" enough to point them out and act on the evidence.
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I will defend to the death your right to offend me.
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(4 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 6:39 AM
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What you say makes sense, but even a traitor could exploit the
same vulnerabilities as a madman. Clearly, "safe" is an illusion.
The unlikely & unpleasant should be planned for.
Btw, if he were a traitor bent upon inflicting maximum damage, his timing & investment of effort don't suggest to me that was his design. As the months pass, I bet they'll tease out factors leading to his act, but at this point it's pretty clear that he was deeply troubled emotionally.
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Posts:
4,107
From:
Bervery Hills. CA
Registered:
11/29/03
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(5 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 6:42 AM
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. The signs were there, if only someone had
> been "intolerant" enough to point them out and act on
> the evidence.
They did, and they created their own enemy.
--
Nelson Mandela: "(The US) is a threat to world peace"
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(6 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 6:48 AM
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You have way too much certainty for that diagnosis,
given that info flying at us from the media is changing daily.
It seems you need to believe that fault is with middle
America, rather than the shooter. Don't worry....I'm sure
that when more is known, there will be culpability for many.
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Posts:
4,224
Registered:
9/16/08
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(7 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 7:03 AM
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> This is one of the worst shooting massacres in
> American history
We've a lot worst. I can up with plenty. Was the US President supposed to go to every incident.
What incidents did Bush ever go to to console people? We had to drag him, kicking and screaming, to go to New Orleans after Katrina.
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Posts:
11,090
From:
Canada
Registered:
10/3/04
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(8 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 7:11 AM
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The signs are always there. For every sign that points to a person who's about to commit such an offence, there are a thousand signs pointing to someone who isn't about to commit an offence. If you want to act on the signs, you'll have to act on every sign.
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty" - Edward R. Murrow
"I realize humanity is probably responsible for global warming, I just kind of want to stur [sic] up some controversy" - Anne 007, Feb 7th, 2008
"When you get right down to it, black people really aren't that bright" Spiritual Machine, April 3rd, 2008
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(9 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 7:13 AM
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>>> If you want to act on the signs, you'll have to act on every sign.
### No, no, no.....you watch every sign, & then act when
appropriate. A good system & good judgment are needed.
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Posts:
8,830
Registered:
12/30/03
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(10 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 7:15 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
I would like to give a shout-out to my peeps! Btw some people were murdered at Fort Hood
--
If irony were strawberries we would all be having smoothies right now.
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Posts:
11,090
From:
Canada
Registered:
10/3/04
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(11 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 7:16 AM
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The problem is it's not easy to determine which signs merit action and which don't. I believe that for every sign which action is merited, there are many signs for which action is not appropriate (in so far as the person will not commit such an atrocity), but which look identical to those for which action is merited.
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty" - Edward R. Murrow
"I realize humanity is probably responsible for global warming, I just kind of want to stur [sic] up some controversy" - Anne 007, Feb 7th, 2008
"When you get right down to it, black people really aren't that bright" Spiritual Machine, April 3rd, 2008
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(12 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 8:28 AM
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I never said it would be easy, or the the results would be
perfect. Perfection is a false goal. Engineering is all about
the art of the intelligent compromise. One does the best one
can with what one has.
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Posts:
3,483
From:
Upper Revoltistan
Registered:
2/24/09
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(13 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 8:30 AM
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Good one.
It reminds me of the hypothetical newspaper headline
about a nuclear bomb falling on New York City.
MICHAEL JACKSON AND 2 MILLION OTHERS KILLED IN BLAST.
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Posts:
14,443
Registered:
11/8/08
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(14 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 9:03 AM
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Would W have gone to Ft. Hood? Since he wouldn't have, why should Obama go for whatever ridiculous reason you think he should go?
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Posts:
18,509
From:
Washington DC
Registered:
7/21/04
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(15 of 21)
Re: Obama Needs to Go to Ft. Hood
Nov 7, 2009 9:05 AM
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He doesn't care about Ft. Hood. He's spending Saturday at Congress trying to intimidate moderate Democrats into voting for this crapola health care bill.
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"We are content and happy if Obama can stay forever as president of the United States"
- Libyan Terrorist Moammar Khadafy
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