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176
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Posts:
8,830
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12/30/03
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(2 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 8:42 PM
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The vast majority of people who are against immigration have ulterior motives rooted in racism.
Besides, Mexico is a hole. Do you want to live there? (Cancun and Acapulco don't count)
I am sure at least half a billion Chinese and Indian people a piece feel the same way. SFW?
--
If irony were strawberries we would all be having smoothies right now.
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Posts:
13,655
From:
South of occupied San Francisco
Registered:
12/7/02
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(3 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 9:00 PM
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"The vast majority of people who are against immigration have ulterior motives rooted in racism."
Evidence, counselor?
"Besides, Mexico is a hole. Do you want to live there? (Cancun and Acapulco don't count)
I am sure at least half a billion Chinese and Indian people a piece feel the same way. SFW? "
Do you want them all here?
I sure as hell don't and it has nothing to do with race.
We have enough homegrown poverty without importing more of it.
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"You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!" ~Julius Caesar, Act 1, Scene 1
ONE and DONE!
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Posts:
821
From:
Aurora, CO
Registered:
12/14/99
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(4 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 9:08 PM
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People always tell us we shouldn't be the "world's policeman".
But evidently, many want us to be the "world's social program".
When exactly did it become our responsibility to take in everyone in the world, because their country is a bad place to live?
What the message to these people should be is simple:
If you don't like your country, why not try changing it?
It isn't our responsibility to change everyone else's country, nor is it our job to take everyone in.
If we allow everyone who wants to come here in, then we will end up being a Third World country, with the same problems those people left behind.
Not exactly a solution to the problem, is it?
"Denial is a great place. I've heard the summers are nice there."
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Posts:
8,830
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12/30/03
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(5 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 9:27 PM
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Evidence, counselor?
Most arguments against some form of legal immigration, immigration reform or any kind of sane procedural reorganizations tend to get met with very illogical, somewhat bad faith and usually contradictory arguments that seldom actually address the issue. Because of the arguments seldom make sense, there usually is some ulterior motive for the vehemence of those putting them forth. Usually when someone has a position that lacks clear logical support, there are less good faith motives in play.
For the record, I am against giving illegals government benefits and whatnot. I support measures allowing the ones shown to be mostly harmless an avenue to become legal residents instead.
With that said, the usual arguments/tropes I have come across are:
1. Equating illegal overstay with burglary and using overgeneralized pronouncements concerning enforcement of the laws of the land which veer off into absurdity and abstraction (The Judge Dredd Argument)
2. Amnesties, new visa types or administrative reforms will allow people to "jump the line" ahead of other people in the system. ["Jumping the line" is not only permitted but regular practice with many issues with CIS, its not a real problem]
3. You want to make us vulnerable to threats from our border ("the I am ignoring you but want to divert the topic" argument, since border patrol is irrelevant to most immigration issues. The real issue is about those already past the border)
4. Harsh measures will discourage people from coming over here illegally or (never true but sounds like it almost, maybe, possibly could be)
5. We have to protect the US workers (yet most companies would just as soon outsource the labor outside the country anyway. Legal residents are less likely to take the crappy jobs if they had greater ability to chose employment. If they weren't illegal or in restrictive visas we have to pay them more and make them pay taxes)
6. We don't need to be importing poverty (yet most immigrant neighborhoods, even ones with large numbers of illegals, seem to have a better work ethic and higher rate of entrepreneurship than a lot of poor native born ones)
Do you want them all here?
Most can't or won't come anyway We want the ones who are smart enough or wealthy enough to be able to come over here and not cause trouble. Its a matter of Darwinism. The dumb ones tend to stay where they are.
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If irony were strawberries we would all be having smoothies right now.
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Posts:
8,830
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12/30/03
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(6 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 9:32 PM
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When exactly did it become our responsibility to take in everyone in the world, because their country is a bad place to live?
Pretty much at inception.
At least 3 of our original 13 states (MA, RI & PA) were founded with the intention of being a refuge for people who didn't like their mother country. Its part of our national culture to be the beacon for the oppressed or just those who want to reinvent their lives. Its what makes us, us.
If we allow everyone who wants to come here in, then we will end up being a Third World country, with the same problems those people left behind.
But only those who have a modicum of resourcefulness or intelligence really have the desire or ability to come here in the first place. It is more dangerous for the mother countries than ourselves. We act as a "brain drain" for the rest of the world.
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If irony were strawberries we would all be having smoothies right now.
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Posts:
821
From:
Aurora, CO
Registered:
12/14/99
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(7 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 10:07 PM
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Well, that may have been how the country started.
But things have changed quite a bit over the last 200 years.
Let's start with how much the population here has grown.
When the US was just a group of colonies, people were needed to build a new country.
But ever since the end of WW2, we have seen this country start filling up.
Simply put, we don't NEED people to come here to populate the country. The birth rate is high enough here without needing immigration to populate the country.
I agree with your "resourceful" argument up to a point.
But the flood of people coming across our southern border get in, not because of their skills or resourcefulness.
They get in because of geography, and poor border controls. Most of these people are dirt poor, and are coming here for jobs and education.
Not the other way around.
If we controlled the illegal immigration into the country, I don't think the vast majority of people would mind reasonable amounts of legal immigration.
But we cannot sustain the huge influx of the poor coming from Mexico, and Central and South America.
Last time I checked, this country is flat broke. We don't need more poor people adding to the poverty rolls in the US.
"Denial is a great place. I've heard the summers are nice there.'
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Posts:
3
From:
Colorado
Registered:
11/5/09
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(8 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 5, 2009 10:36 PM
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I would like to know what states you guys are living in..as for Mexico, listen the country has been in existance for as long if not longer than the US and they have made it a abomination, corruption, drug cartells run the country, etc, they messed it up and want a bail out, so come on down! as for the comment that mostly the talented have the drive to come over, are you high? here in Colorado, crime, drugs, kidnapping, car theft, prostiution, murder, has a very latin tone. but that would be profiling, NOPE, just factual. if they had drive and talent they would make their own country a fit place to live, not drag down and bankrupt this one. IT IS ILLEGAL WHAT DONT PEOPLE GET ABOUT THAT REALITY FOR GODS SAKE!! You know, that small thing that makes for civilization? If they break it coming in why do you believe they would care anything for this countries laws and rights that lawful Americans died to protect for other AMERICANS
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Posts:
176
Registered:
9/6/08
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(9 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 12:14 AM
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lwolkow:
What a stupid post, but thanks for the laugh. Jeeeeeeeeez.
--
COALITION FOR THE FUTURE AMERICAN WORKER: http://www.americanworker.org/
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Posts:
280
Registered:
4/4/01
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(10 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 3:34 AM
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Mexicans have more right to this land than Americans - we stole it from them in the war. What gives us a right to keep them out from a better life?
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Posts:
4,107
From:
Bervery Hills. CA
Registered:
11/29/03
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(11 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 5:55 AM
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> But only those who have a modicum of resourcefulness
> or intelligence really have the desire or ability to
> come here in the first place. It is more dangerous
> for the mother countries than ourselves. We act as a
> "brain drain" for the rest of the world.
I agree with that in part. That if those people tried hard enough to come here, to earn better salaries, to live among freer people, to give their kids decent education, etc. they'll try hard for everything in their lives and such efforts might end up benefitting the country.
However that argument applies only to those who lived thousands of miles away from the borders of this nation , and with serious natural obstacles along the way (and immigrated legally or ilegaly), or the ones that paid & made all the legitimate paperworks by themselves. Many others didnt have to endure those hardships and perhaps the lack of such experiences doesnt make them appreciate the opportunities that were given.
This is not an attack on Mexicans or Canadians. I just wanted to point out there is a hole in your argument, and might want to address that some time in the future.
--
Nelson Mandela: "(The US) is a threat to world peace"
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Posts:
97
Registered:
8/27/00
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(12 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 6:39 AM
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Nativists have been making these arguments for almost two centuries now. First it was the Irish, then Poles and Balkan states, now its Hispanics. They're not going anywhere. Here's a possible solution: make them all legal. Offer them a kind of amnesty that allows them to stay, make them ID cards that designate their status (a kind of work authorization card, which we already do) get them to come out of the shadows of society and stop taking those paid-under-the-table jobs, and then tax them at twice their rate. As someone else already said, this country is broke, so every little bit of tax revenue is a good thing.
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Posts:
27,243
From:
Flagstaff
Registered:
7/12/01
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(13 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 7:08 AM
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2. Amnesties, new visa types or administrative reforms will allow people to "jump the line" ahead of other people in the system. ["Jumping the line" is not only permitted but regular practice with many issues with CIS, its not a real problem]
The people they allow to jump the line are mostly those who are in danger of being killed in their own country. Or those that have special skills that we lack here.
Jumping the line is important. Because it allows anyone and everyone to enter if they can make it past our Border Patrol. It also brings in many without skills that have it harder to find jobs in their own country. Makes it so others that have waited months or years to come in legally, to wait even longer. Brings in more unskilled people that will need social services. Reduces our chance to compete in brain power in the world's market, by delaying or keeping others with skills that America can use.
--
Beam me up Scottie, no intelligent life down here.
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Posts:
1,989
Registered:
3/20/09
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(14 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 7:52 AM
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> Mexicans have more right to this land than Americans
> - we stole it from them in the war.
Ceding land isn't stealing.
What gives us a
> right to keep them out from a better life?
Well if you feel that way, let's send a few hundred to live at your house.
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Posts:
19,134
Registered:
1/13/03
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(15 of 29)
Re: 1/3 of Mexicans want to come to the U.S.
Nov 6, 2009 7:58 AM
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Here's a sobering thought. We have twice as many illegal aliens in the Country than the entire population of Norway.
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