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Posts:
965
From:
Virginia/Maryland
Registered:
12/10/07
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(1 of 72)
Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 12:41 PM
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On a thread on this page, I described 'Shermans march to the sea' as...
"Waging war on non-combatants, burning cities and capturing and taking women."
Unionblue responded with this quote...
"Unsupported, undocumented, unsourced opinion on Sherman's march and the actions taken during it."
I find it sad that someone with so many posts on here could be so unknowing about the truth.
I would like to help educate Unionblue as to the facts that he does not believe.
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Posts:
10,794
Registered:
1/18/06
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(2 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 12:48 PM
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Sherman didn't "wage war" on non-combatants any more than the United States waged war on Iraqis, Afgans, and Pakistani civilians.
Innocent people die and the land is devastated during war. A "polite" war hasn't been fought since the Civil War ended.
--
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge - Charles Darwin
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Posts:
965
From:
Virginia/Maryland
Registered:
12/10/07
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Posts:
965
From:
Virginia/Maryland
Registered:
12/10/07
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(4 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 1:00 PM
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The 400-500 Roswell mill women "were taken prisoner, abused, manhandled, molested, raped and now would be transported hundreds of miles way from their homes. In those days it was rare to travel more than 10 miles or so from home. These battered Georgia women, were in complete terror. Some felt death might be a less cruel fate."
http://www.scv674.org/SH-13.htm
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Posts:
965
From:
Virginia/Maryland
Registered:
12/10/07
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(5 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM
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> Sherman didn't "wage war" on non-combatants any more
> than the United States waged war on Iraqis, Afgans,
> and Pakistani civilians.
>
> Innocent people die and the land is devastated during
> war. A "polite" war hasn't been fought since the
> Civil War ended.
Thanks jpeter for admitting to Unionblue that Sherman did indeed "wage war" on non-combatants.
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Posts:
9,306
From:
Shenandoah Valley
Registered:
1/6/04
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(6 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 2:11 PM
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> Sherman didn't "wage war" on non-combatants any more
> than the United States waged war on Iraqis, Afgans,
> and Pakistani civilians.
>
> Innocent people die and the land is devastated during
> war. A "polite" war hasn't been fought since the
> Civil War ended.
>
> --
> Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does
> knowledge - Charles Darwin
These countries learned this behavior from lincolnistas.
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Posts:
1,902
Registered:
11/13/07
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(7 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 9:15 PM
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rdfx,
If you are the one who is going to educate me, I have a bit of advice.
Bring a lunch.
Then a dinner 
Now, as to your allegations concerning the Roswell Women.
First off, you did very well with some of the websites you presented. They actually contained real, honest-to-goodness FACTS of a historical nature.
Except for that last one from the scv website. Pretty much total garbage, especially when it makes these charges of rape, etc. But, hey, why let one website detract from all the others you provided, right?
I especially liked the sites you mentioned that had references to the books and articles written by Michael Hitt, Mr. Hitt is a member of the Roswell Historical Society and was a local police officer in the town of Roswell.
Mr. Hitt undertook an eight year investigation (which conclueded in 1992) to determine what actually happened to the 400 women who worked in the Roswell mill.
Now I know this may come as a surprise to you, being actual facts chased down by a police officer and member of the RHS, but Mr. Hitt's investigation does not support the claims made by yourself, or the scv site you list, of widespread murder and rape by Union troops.
In fact, Mr. Hitt found that many of the women did NOT board the train in Marietta, as they were hired by local families to replace freed and fleeing slaves who had run off to follow Sherman's army.
He also found that several of the women had returned to Roswell before the end of the war, and even more were picked up in Roswell by the 1870 census. Many left Louisville for Indiana and other towns along the Ohio river to work in mills there. Quite a large number had married and stayed in Kentucky and the surrounding area.
But don't take my word for it. Order the book by Mr. Hitt. You've made a good start with actually researching the event, except for the one partisan site, keep on doing so.
There is so much to learn and so little time to truly 'educate' anyone. 
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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Posts:
1,902
Registered:
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(8 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 9:21 PM
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rdfx,
Michael Hitt's book is Charged With Treason, if you wish to check it out.
Mr. Hitt also states in his book that most of the Roswell mill women found their way back to Roswell in the summer of 1865.
But like I said, don't take my word for it. Check out the book and see what he has to say.
SIncerely,
Unionblue
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Posts:
3,294
Registered:
1/19/07
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(9 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 6, 2009 10:59 PM
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UB
Foxy has made these claims repeatedly and has been made to look foolish each time. A demand for education should start at home.
As far as the Sherman issue is concerned he has never been able to support his claims and will not be able to do it this time either. War like all things is ever changing. Sherman saw the future and went there. You can't expect anyone to like the idea of being trampled by enemy forces.
Dan
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Posts:
3,403
From:
the south
Registered:
5/28/07
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(10 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 1:51 AM
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Dan
Wasn't Sherman's march and Sheridan in the valley all part of Grant's black flag concept? I'm not saying he knew specifically what Sherman had in mind but it doesn't see that he tried very hard to find out. It doesn't seem like Lincoln put any pressure on Grant to find out. Sherman, in his memoirs, conceded the fact that he was taught at West Point that he could'been hanged for some of his actions in Georgia and the Carolinas.
Would you elaborate om what you mean by "Sherman saw the future and went there." please? I don't mean to sound dispitacious I agree that war is ever changing. How do you perceive the allagations as to Sherman's conduct and if you see his actions as justifiable, what do you feel, in terms of specific events go, Sherman did in Georgia and the Carolinas? No, no one liked, or would like, being trampled down enemy forces. Considering he didn't meet any real opposition until he got to Norh Carolina, what made him feel the need to torch Columbia?
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Posts:
3,543
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(11 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 3:35 AM
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> Sherman didn't "wage war" on non-combatants any more
> than the United States waged war on Iraqis, Afgans,
> and Pakistani civilians.
>
> Innocent people die and the land is devastated during
> war. A "polite" war hasn't been fought since the
> Civil War ended.
You actually compare mere collateral damage, with the deliberate, purposeful and premeditated targeting of non-combatant civilians, including women and children?
Even YOU can't be that stupid-- and that's not an insult: you really CAN'T.
Come on: play it again, Sam: "it ended the war quicker, so it was a GOOD crime against humanity."
Save it for the Hiroshima forum, chum. Machiavellian pragmatsm is the argument of every ruthless dictator; "whatever works" is their motto, along with "the ends justify the means-- ANY means."
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Posts:
3,543
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(12 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 3:45 AM
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> There is so much to learn and so little time to truly
> 'educate' anyone.
>
> Unionblue
Particularly if they are dogmatically indoctrinated against hearing the truth, which makes education impossible, since then THE TRUTH HURTS.
Like "NO TARGETING INNOCENT NON-COMBATANTS-- EVER." They'll respond "it ends the war quicker, so it's ok," since it eases their conscience; it's far easier to simply deny wrondoing under "vae victus," than to admit it and be forced to pay pennance.
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Posts:
3,294
Registered:
1/19/07
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(13 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 6:51 AM
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DD4
Black flag warfare is a totally different concept than what Sherman envisioned. Rather than a no holds barred, take no prisoners clash of armies Sherman's approach was that by reducing the capability of an enemy to support war functions could win the war with fewer not more casualties.
Quite naturally such a radical departure from the norm would seem at odds with traditional thinking about war making. This concept became the basis for American warmaking efforts until after Vietnam.(see the wholesale bombing of German, Japanese, and North Vietnamese cities).
Not only were his actions justifiable but they were visionary. Winning a war without confronting the enemy forces seems a fairly intelligent option.
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Posts:
965
From:
Virginia/Maryland
Registered:
12/10/07
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(14 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 4:08 PM
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Unionblue, I stated that women were "captured and taken"
You responded with this...
"Unsupported, undocumented, unsourced opinion on Sherman's march and the actions taken during it."
Then you post a book that proves it really happened.
Thank you for proving me right and you wrong...
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Posts:
1,902
Registered:
11/13/07
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(15 of 72)
Re: Please help educate Unionblue
Nov 7, 2009 4:38 PM
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rdfx states above:
> Unionblue, I stated that women were "captured and
> taken"
>
> You responded with this...
>
> "Unsupported, undocumented, unsourced opinion on
> n Sherman's march and the actions taken during it."
>
> Then you post a book that proves it really happened.
>
> Thank you for proving me right and you wrong...
rdfx, try and stay with me on this one.
You make an unsupported statement in your first post and when challenged on it, you only then respond with various websites that you had to get off your dead butt and support with some factual information.
I then tell you that some of the websites you have provided are not bad, except for the left-field, non-supported scv site about the fate of the Roswell mill women, which is completely wrong when it states the "women were raped, etc."
Now, still having failed to provide fully accurate information on any of the areas you have challenged history on, the best you can do is the old playground cry of, "You proved me right and your wrong" ploy?
You have made a general, unsupported statement about General Sherman's march and then tried to paint in the most inaccurate terms the conditions and actions taken concerning the Roswell women mill workders. You let these terms stand until I provide a source that proves you wrong.
But this has happened before on the same topic, as sfcdan has been so kind to point out, so your response is not unexpected.
As for your cheerleading section by Brian, I can only say, I hope you brought a big enough lunch to feed him too.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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