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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(1 of 29)
I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 4, 2009 7:24 AM
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It's not "The American People," since they have no sovereign authority.
And likewise, Unionists claim that it's not the Peoples of the individual states.
So WHO is it? Names, please?
Or is not ANY person or persons, but supposedly some abstract collective "hive" concept, represented by a Utopian bureacracy under "da Constitution," where there's simply power without account?
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Posts:
9,304
From:
Shenandoah Valley
Registered:
1/6/04
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(2 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 4, 2009 10:59 AM
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> It's not "The American People," since they have no
> sovereign authority.
>
> And likewise, Unionists claim that it's not the
> Peoples of the individual states.
>
> So WHO is it? Names, please?
>
> Or is not ANY person or persons, but supposedly some
> abstract collective "hive" concept, represented by a
> Utopian bureacracy under "da Constitution," where
> there's simply power without account?
You, me and all the other posters. 
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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(3 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 4, 2009 5:56 PM
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> > It's not "The American People," since they have
> no
> > sovereign authority.
> >
> > And likewise, Unionists claim that it's not the
> > Peoples of the individual states.
> >
> > So WHO is it? Names, please?
> >
> > Or is not ANY person or persons, but supposedly
> some
> > abstract collective "hive" concept, represented
> by a
> > Utopian bureacracy under "da Constitution,"
> where
> > there's simply power without account?
>
> You, me and all the other posters.
The ruling sovereigns? Heaven forbid!!
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Posts:
1,903
Registered:
11/13/07
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(4 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 4, 2009 11:38 PM
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Question.
If a State claims to be sovereign and there are no people in the State to hear it, does the claim of such make it so?
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(5 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 8:12 AM
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> Question.
>
> If a State claims to be sovereign and there are no
> people in the State to hear it, does the claim of
> such make it so?
>
> Unionblue
As with "divided sovereignty, this is impossible, reductio ad absurdum.
A "state" is defined as a people identiied with a certain piece of land; and so no people = no state.
Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling People, so no people = no sovereign.
Of course to your way of thinking, both a state and a sovereign are purely hypthetical concepts, and not necessarily people at all.... that's your whole problem. right there, along with the absurd notion of "diivded sovereignty" which is void on its face.
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Posts:
9,304
From:
Shenandoah Valley
Registered:
1/6/04
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(6 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 11:24 AM
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Thomas Jefferson, do you have a job for a living?
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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(7 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 11:48 AM
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No, my ship came in a week ago.
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Posts:
1,903
Registered:
11/13/07
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(8 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 1:31 PM
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Brian states above:
> A "state" is defined as a people identiied
> with a certain piece of land; and so no people = no
> state.
"No people = no state."
> Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling
> People, so no people = no sovereign.
"No people = no sovereign."
> Of course to your way of thinking, both a
> state and a sovereign are purely hypthetical
> concepts, and not necessarily people at
> all.... that's your whole problem. right there, along
> with the absurd notion of "diivded sovereignty" which
> is void on its face.
No, I don't think so.
What I am saying, and what I have said all along, is without 'the people' within a certain piece of land called a 'state' there is no sovereignty.
What I am saying is that if there are no people within a certain peace of land called a state, there can be no sovereign as the supreme ruling People, so no people = no sovereign.
The People seem to be the key to exercising sovereignty for a piece of land, do they not?
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(9 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 1:58 PM
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> Brian states above:
>
> > A "state" is defined as a people
> identiied
> > with a certain piece of land; and so no people =
> no
> > state.
>
> "No people = no state."
>
> > Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling
> > People, so no people = no sovereign.
>
> "No people = no sovereign."
>
> > Of course to your way of thinking, both
> a
> > state and a sovereign are purely
> hypthetical
> > concepts, and not necessarily people at
> > all.... that's your whole problem. right there,
> along
> > with the absurd notion of "diivded sovereignty"
> which
> > is void on its face.
>
> No, I don't think so.
Or at all.
> What I am saying, and what I have said all along, is
> without 'the people' within a certain piece of land
> called a 'state' there is no sovereignty.
>
> What I am saying is that if there are no people
> within a certain peace of land called a state, there
> can be no sovereign as the supreme ruling
> People, so no people = no sovereign.
>
> The People seem to be the key to exercising
> sovereignty for a piece of land, do they not?
>
> Unionblue
If there's a point to this rhetorical question, kindly make it, because it's not at all clear what you're getting at-- though pehaps that IS your point, i.e. you answer a question with a question in order to hide the fact that you don't know what you're talking about; it's a common tactic among pseudo-intellectuals.
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Posts:
1,903
Registered:
11/13/07
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(10 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 3:21 PM
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Unionblue stated above:
> > The People seem to be the key to
> exercising
> > sovereignty for a piece of land, do they not?
> >
> > Unionblue
Brian replied:
> If there's a point to this rhetorical question,
> kindly make it, because it's not at all clear what
> you're getting at-- though pehaps that IS your point,
> i.e. you answer a question with a question in order
> to hide the fact that you don't know what you're
> talking about; it's a common tactic among
> pseudo-intellectuals.
Ignoring the usual insults, Brian, you have stated in your previous posts the following:
"A "state" is defined as a people identified with a certain piece of land, and so no people = no state."
You also stated above,
"Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling People, so no people = no sovereign."
I then asked the question, "The People seem to be the key in exercising sovereignty for a piece of land, do they not?"
To make a more direct approach, then is it your view that it takes People to exercise sovereignty for a piece of land?
I simply want to make sure of your meaning, if you can do so.
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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Posts:
3,537
From:
Monticello
Registered:
1/15/07
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(11 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 4:59 PM
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> Unionblue stated above:
>
> > > The People seem to be the key to
> > exercising
> > > sovereignty for a piece of land, do they
> not?
> > >
> > > Unionblue
>
> Brian replied:
>
> > If there's a point to this rhetorical question,
> > kindly make it, because it's not at all clear
> what
> > you're getting at-- though pehaps that IS your
> point,
> > i.e. you answer a question with a question in
> order
> > to hide the fact that you don't know what
> you're
> > talking about; it's a common tactic among
> > pseudo-intellectuals.
>
> Ignoring the usual insults, Brian, you have stated in
> your previous posts the following:
It wasn't an insult, it was an actual question, combined with an observation..
> "A "state" is defined as a people
> identified with a certain piece of land, and so no
> people = no state."
>
> You also stated above,
>
> "Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling
> People, so no people = no sovereign."
>
> I then asked the question, "The People seem to be
> the key in exercising sovereignty for a piece of
> land, do they not?"
>
> To make a more direct approach, then is it your view
> that it takes People to exercise sovereignty for a
> piece of land?
>
> I simply want to make sure of your meaning, if you
> can do so.
I answered in plain English, and you twisted it in double-talk.
I said "people," meaning one or more persons; you said "THE People," meaning everyone.
Can't you read ANYTHING without twisting it? You make Bill Clinton look like George Washington.
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Posts:
1,903
Registered:
11/13/07
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(12 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 5, 2009 9:01 PM
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Brian states above:
> I answered in plain English, and you twisted it in
> double-talk.
> I said "people," meaning one or more persons;
> you said "THE People," meaning everyone.
Brian, your words from your previous posts.
"It's not "The American People," since they have no sovereign authority."
"A "state" is defined as a people identified with a certain piece of land, and so no people = no state."
> Can't you read ANYTHING without twisting it? You make
> Bill Clinton look like George Washington.
And your logic is twisted as badly as a snake with a broken back.
You also stated in your posts above the following:
"And likewise, Unionists claim that it's not the Peoples of the individual states."
"Likewise, a sovereign is the supreme ruling People, so no people = no sovereign."
I keep seeing the word "people" a lot in your statements, Brian.
I see that you state that without people = no state, no sovereign, no exercise of sovereignty.
That about right?
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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Posts:
3,404
From:
the south
Registered:
5/28/07
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(13 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 6, 2009 2:35 AM
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Vareb
He sure does. Don't you remember him saying he was a martial arts instructer for the military? That whopper still makes me laugh.
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Posts:
3,287
Registered:
1/19/07
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(14 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 6, 2009 11:08 PM
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martial arts instructor for the military
That was a good laugh.
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Posts:
3,404
From:
the south
Registered:
5/28/07
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(15 of 29)
Re: I ask again: WHO is the American sovereign?
Nov 7, 2009 1:59 AM
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dan
Glad you're home. It's off topic but do you think terrorist groups have been able to get into our military? I just wonderered about the Ft. Hood tragedy since the Major was Muslim. I'm not trying to start any paranoid plot but being discussed among the men and women of the base here.
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