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(1 of 33)
Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 3:31 PM
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Two Pensions from the Government .... for the same person?
How about 'any' pension for public service?
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Monticello
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(2 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 3:41 PM
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I'm sure that such "double-dipping" was commonplace in the British Parliamentary system, and among the nobility.
That's why they expressly forbade the awarding of such titles of nobility, as well as the formation of religious offices.
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(3 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 3:53 PM
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<historicus wrote:
"How about 'any' pension for public service?">
Since George Washigton lobbied for pensions-for-life for his soldiers and Jackson and Monroe also supported it, I would say that the answer to your question is "YES."
--
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Quincy Adams
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Guest
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(4 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 4:32 PM
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first icepick..
TWO?
second...
if you sincerely believe that those who envisoned a rotating public servant arrangement, where those are summoned from the private sector, serve...and then return to private life...
EVER envisioned a double dipping scenario......
fine.
I suggest that the founding fathers never envisioned a pension even Congressmen.....
does anyone have evidence to the contrary?
And if not for a Congressman....two for 'one person' is a reach...
I sense the double dippers just all weighed in....
is Union Blue here?
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Posts:
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(5 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 4:45 PM
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<historicus wrote:
"I sense the double dippers just all weighed in.... ">
You "sense" wrong at least on my part. I still work for a living and pay into my retirement account like most others except UAW employees. That being said, what of those who do receive a single or double pension. Are you jealous? Not educated enough to have a job that provides a pension? What's your problem with a large majority of Americans who have pension programs? And besides, what has this got to do with the Civil War or are you attempting to discredit some of our military service people who have earned their retirements?
--
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Quincy Adams
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(6 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 7:09 PM
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historicus:
not just double-dipping, but also lifetime-pensions for short-term service. Officials often receive lifetime pensions for serving as little as ONE TERM in office-- which is unheard of in the public sector, even among the most notorious "golden-parachute" deals.
But one can one say, when it's common knowledge that absolute power, corrupts absolutely.
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(7 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 1, 2009 7:17 PM
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> historicus:
>
> not just double-dipping, but also lifetime-pensions
> for short-term service. Officials often receive
> lifetime pensions for serving as little as ONE TERM
> in office-- which is unheard of in the public sector,
> even among the most notorious "golden-parachute"
> deals.
Like the guy at Merrill Lynch who got $9,000,000 as a severance bonus after three weeks on the job.
If you had a work record with some vesting, you too could get a pension.
>
> But one can one say, when it's common knowledge that
> absolute power, corrupts absolutely.
--
Brgds,
Pat
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Guest
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(8 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 4:46 AM
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Regarding Merrill Lynch..
if I was a shareholder, I would be outraged. They also dont operate in the framework of the Constitution nor with the input of the Founding Fathers.
Wereas, our Public Officials do operate within the framework of the Constitution and with the input of the Founding Fathers...which is the 'intent' of the system.
And, I am a shareholder ......(taxpayer)
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(9 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 7:28 AM
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This is a board for the discussion of the U S Civil War. This thread has nothing to do with the topic, or any other topic that I can see. It is simply provocative and makes no logical sense.
--
Brgds,
Pat
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Guest
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(10 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 8:04 AM
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The Confederate Constitution called for the Postal Service to be able to support itself.
The Federal Postal Service is losing about $6 Billion a year....
Is that due to all the Pension obligations they have?
Was the Confederacy correct....
It is an example of the contrast in attitudes...
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(11 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 8:25 AM
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> The Confederate Constitution called for the Postal
> Service to be able to support itself.
>
> The Federal Postal Service is losing about $6 Billion
> a year....
Today with the internet, fax, courier services as competition. I believe the US Postal service was either profitable or very close to it. Postal service is one of the services that government is expected to do.
>
> Is that due to all the Pension obligations they
> have?
pension obligations are very predictable for years ahead. The costs of pensions should be factored into the rates.
> Was the Confederacy correct....
>
> It is an example of the contrast in attitudes...
In those times , yes.
Are you saying a letter carrier with 25+ years of service should not be entitled to a pension while a colerk in an insurance company is?
--
Brgds,
Pat
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Guest
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(12 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 8:30 AM
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>Are you saying a letter carrier with 25+ years of service should not be entitled to a pension while a colerk in an insurance company is?
No.
And it is more like 20 years...isnt it?
20 in one place, 20 in another...and you are dipping twice...into the federal coffers....just for changing jobs...but not employers.
If an insurance 'clerk' worked 40 years...does he get two pensions?
The Federal Mother to ALL is a direct consequence of the Northern folk who had an entirely different vision of the Federal Government, what it could and could not do...and what it SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do...
Like forcing people to buy health insurance...for simply existing...
Only Constitutional if an amendment is passed.....imo and the legal opinion of others..
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(13 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 2, 2009 1:33 PM
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historicus from above:
> is Union Blue here?
Here. 
Are you asking a question?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
--
Belief does not make truth.
Evidence makes truth.
And belief does not make evidence.
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(14 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 4, 2009 2:27 AM
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Trying to strongarm another poster patty?
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Guest
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(15 of 33)
Re: Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Nov 4, 2009 4:15 PM
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Did the Federal Government, Founding Fathers ever envision this?
Lifetime Government Pensions? Sometimes more than one to one individual?
I must have missed someone trying to answer this.
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