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Posts:
17
Registered:
7/16/05
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(1 of 57)
Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Mar 1, 2008 5:39 PM
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I really enjoyed this show and so did my friends. Way fun!
Great editing and even better CGI than Dogfights!
I can't wait to watch the next show!
Keep up the good work History Channel!
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Posts:
1
Registered:
3/6/08
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(2 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Mar 6, 2008 8:46 PM
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I think this show is great too. I hope there are a lot more episodes to come!
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Posts:
1
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3/7/08
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(3 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Mar 7, 2008 8:52 AM
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The HC destroyed the archival footage with all the cgi "ageing" and effects. There is a historical treasure in actual combat imagery which can be augmented nicely with cgi. Unfortunately, this show goes the opposite way and destroys it. Nice concept, needs alot of improvement.
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Posts:
13
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11/2/07
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(4 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Mar 8, 2008 12:22 AM
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> I really enjoyed this show and so did my friends. Way
> fun!
>
> Great editing and even better CGI than Dogfights!
>
> I can't wait to watch the next show!
>
> Keep up the good work History Channel!
Are you the son of the producer? LOL
I repectfully disagree. Terrible effects. When the editers over shadow the story line, you have a big problem.
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Posts:
2
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3/7/08
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(5 of 57)
What the hell are you talking about? Johnisme
Mar 8, 2008 2:03 AM
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I wouldn't call this a documentary and most of the animation looks like the animation from Dogfights. In fact I'm pretty sure I've seen some of the shots in Dogfights. I think Dogfights is much better and if the rumors are true I'd hate to see Battle 360 replace Dogfights.
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Edited by _Vader_ at 03/08/2008 2:06 AM
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Posts:
15
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11/15/07
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(6 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Mar 8, 2008 5:23 AM
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I dunno...i liked the CGI. But i wouldn't go as afar to say that the graphics in Battle 360 were better than in Dogfights. I liked how the guys at HC gave all those details, but i have to admit, i enjoyed Dogfights a little more. I agree with _Vader_: i'd be very angry if Battle 360 replaces Dogfights. 
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Edited by rocknroll at 03/08/2008 5:25 AM
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Posts:
48
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4/15/08
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(7 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 26, 2008 10:03 PM
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nEXT FRIDAY WILL BE CONCLUDING PROGRAM bATTLE 360. mUCH OF 1945 WILL BE NIGHT OPERATIONS,SO AM ANXIOUS TO SEE HOW PRODUCERS HANDLE ALL THE ACTION INVOLVED. wE WERE PRETTY BUSY!!!AWO
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Posts:
70
From:
so cal
Registered:
3/28/08
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(8 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 12:07 AM
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If I did not know better I would have to believe that the U.S.S. Enterprise won the pacific campain by it self what this fails to do is to give a litte credit to its fellow combatins many many other ships played a just important role and protected her so she could achieve what she did I relize that enterprise car rental and the president Jack Taylor wanted to tell her story! but so many other good ships did just as important duties, I am not by any means minimizeing the CV 6's actions she was a gallant ship but so far all I have seen is one sided glory it would have been nice to mention other admirals and ships, in the Leyte Gulf episode alone it fails to mention the famous "BULLS RUN" or " the words of CIC to Adm Hasley
"Where is taffy 3 the whole world wants to know"
The Cv 6 was a great ship and a gallant crew and a extrordinary aviation unit, But with out a supporting task group she could not do what she did. we BB59 operated with her many many times
Like the crew of the CV 6 we the other part of her task group are just as proud of our action and duties and ships, we just did what had to be done no questions asked, ole "Big Mamie" was known as the work horse of the fleet a real street fighter and like the Cv6 her record speaks louder that all the stats
nuff said
BOBc
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For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning, The protected will never know!
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Posts:
218
Registered:
5/29/07
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(9 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 5:51 AM
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Actually, I think this show has done a lot on the other ships, considering its a progrm all about Enterprise. They've done nice segments on Yorktown, Hornet, Battleships Washington and NC, as well as cruiser Atlanta, Northampton, and Chicago, just to name a few. Seems like in a show about Enterprise, they've given plenty of credit to the other ships.
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Posts:
7
From:
Arizona
Registered:
3/2/08
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(10 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 6:19 AM
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That's the show, BobC. It's about the Enterprise and those that served her.
I am grateful that you still have your ship. I would enjoy taking a tour of it and having you as my tour guide. At least you were there and I know that I would learn more from you than another guide that never served aboard the ship. My father did serve aboard the "Big E". Unfortunately, he is not able to take me on a tour of his ship. I can only read about her and look at pictures of what she looked like. I also had an uncle that served aboard the WASP CV-7. We all know what happened to her.
I enjoyed your information about the 5" and 16" guns. I have a 5" projectile that was handed down to me from my Grandfather. He worked in a munitions plant during the war. I used it as a bank to keep my loose change. By the way... How was the Spaghetti? Thought you would have served S.o.S. 
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Posts:
70
From:
so cal
Registered:
3/28/08
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(11 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 12:20 PM
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Yea We had a good turn outfor our friday nite dinner at the post about 45 ppl showed up and ran out of gravy { sause to non italian] lol {must learn to cut portions}
About the wasp if u can get your hands on a BB59 cruise book turn to page 100 there are 4 pictures of the Wasp when she took the hits one shows her listing pretty good it includes the intial hit
NUFF Said
BOB
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For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning, The protected will never know!
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Posts:
53
Registered:
1/17/05
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(12 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 12:35 PM
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Bob,
I understand your sentiments, being from another very successful combatant in the theater. However, I have to agree with some of the other comments--this show is about the Big E, who has been largely ignored in the documentaries and movies presented to the general public.
They have told a lot of stories that surrounded the Enterprise. They gave credit to the old battleships that decimated the IJN task force headed to Leyte Gulf and to the heroics of Taffy 3. They could have very easily bypassed these stories since they were not directly associated with the Enterprise.
There are several details that I wish they had included during this series, but I have to remember that they only have one hour per week and the details are numerous.
I wish they had mentioned more about Spruance's role at Midway and that he was smart enough to turn his TF eastward at night, therefore saving them a disastrous fate at the hands of Yamamoto's BB's that were pursuing them. And that halfway through the night he turned back to be in a position to attack the next morning. Pretty impressive for a non-flying cruiser admiral!
As for Nimitz's message to Halsey, I too looked to see it mentioned, but am not offended that it wasn't. My understanding is that the message was,
"Where is TF 58? All the world wonders."
Taffy 3 was Admiral Sprague's group of jeep carriers that staved off the Yamato and her group.
Another bit of trivia about the message: Nimitz's message was "Where is TF 58?" The additional portion, "All the world wonders" was bumper text added by the encoding sailors routinely, in order to confuse the Japanese intercepting the messages. An unfortunate coincidental combination that led Halsey's face to redden and his famous temper to flare.
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Posts:
48
Registered:
4/15/08
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(13 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
Apr 27, 2008 2:52 PM
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last episode will be 2 May 08, which will conclude 10 hours of production to cover all 20 battles.
Most of us vets in cv-6 recall the ones WHEN WE WERE THERE WITH MEMORIES NOT FORGOTTEN. This is truly an awesome production relating to Battles in Pacific campaigns, WW II. Our Flight Deck CPO is a legend in CV-6 history. The men who ran to "unhook" the TAILHOOK cable were THE BEST in the Fleet. The men in M Division always had more turns on the propeller and more steam available for emergency operations. Radar Ops was critical ALL THE TIME. OUR COOKS AND BAKERS ALWAYS PERFORMED BEST IN THE FLEET. OUR cAPTAINS AND HIS qUARTERMASTERS NEVER GAVE AN INCH WHEN IN HARM'S WAY. SOMEHOW,THIS SHIP BROUGHT US HOME TOO, SAFELY, IN 1945, BUT SUFFERING WOUNDS FROM OKINAWA. ALL OF US ARE THANKFUL FOR THE REMARKABLE PERFORMANCE OF OUR REPAIR DIVISION. THEY SAVED OUR SHIP MORE THAN ONCE. awo
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Posts:
2
From:
Laguna Niguel, CA
Registered:
5/2/08
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(14 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
May 3, 2008 1:38 AM
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What an incredible program. I have looked forward every week to watch this program and am amazed at what the Big E accomplished against difficult odds. I enjoyed this program so much that I also bought the DVD set. It is so important that we never forget, that we are continually reminded of the sacrifices that this "Greatest American Generation" made for our country. I would love to see more programs like this.
I thank Jack Taylor for making this program happen so that we can all, present day, honor the men that served on the Enterprise as well as other ships fighting in the Pacific.
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Posts:
17
Registered:
5/5/08
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(15 of 57)
Re: Wow! Best WWII documentary ever!
May 5, 2008 7:57 PM
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For the past few weeks I have noted with interest and sometimes astonishment at the numerous accounts of accolades written about this series Battle360/Enterprise. Yet in my circle, which is mostly older historian types and authors of military history, I have heard nothing but disillusionment and heartfelt disappointment of a failed opportunity. Though it appears I am alone in my views in certain venues, I know for a fact through feedback that I am not. And it needs to be said.
First and foremost, my own criticisms of THC's Battle360 have nothing whatsoever to do with USS Enterprise (CV-6), her gallant crew, or the campaigns she was involved in. I repeat - I have nothing but utmost respect and admiration for this ship, her crew and the men who flew from her decks. It is for them (and their families) my heart is heavy.
As a carrier buff with particular interest in the USS Enterprise and Solomon campaigns I was excited with the news of THC's Battle360 project on Enterprise. (I have studied Guadalcanal and the history of Enterprise for more than forty years.) Indeed, rarely - if ever - have I awaited such an extensive, expensive, and thorough series on the carrier war in the Pacific than Battle360/Enterprise. And what a subject it is. The Big E served in every major campaign in the Pacific Theater. And I myself have interviewed a dozen Ship's Company and Air Group personnel who had served aboard Enterprise during the desperate and savage campaigns off Guadalcanal. What an opportunity to finally portray the history of the Pacific Carrier War as told via the most decorated ship in naval history. However, within minutes of the first episode I sadly realized that Battle360 was merely a lackluster - or hack - production of poor graphics, distorted film techniques, and a badly written script strewn with historical inaccuracies (or oversights). Tragically Battle360 is a missed opportunity for a thorough dissertation of the true history of Enterprise and The Pacific War. In fact, within fifteen to twenty minutes into the first segment I fielded no less than a dozen calls from friends and colleagues complaining of the abysmal production style, thus confirming my own observations and disillusionment. (Like me, they were all looking forward to this.) Eventually, I literally was standing in the middle of my theater ranting, raving and screaming in frustration: "Why on earth would they DO that?" As the series progressed the callers - to a man - aborted the mission entirely, most having done so by the middle of episode two. Four of these viewers had the persistence to slog through to the end of episode three (and then hit the silk. As far as I know I was the only one among the group to grind through the series in its entirety.
Admittedly, much of my criticism is based directly and exclusively on my own (and my fellow associates) production taste. The actual stock footage of the Pacific War, carrier war, and USS Enterprise, shot in the standard 4×5 full screen ratio format that included a substantial amount of footage filmed in beautiful Technicolor. Unfortunately, every single foot of it was distorted by the producers to fit the modern wide screen ratio format. Though this technique is now typical, and perhaps understandable, it is hard to accept nonetheless when viewing actual film history of any given event as it distorts the historical record. This problem could have been corrected simply by using a Japanese "rising sun or fried egg" representation to one side of the screen with a partial configuration of the Stars and Stripes representation on the opposite. Or perhaps any ship silhouette would have done nicely, i.e. Enterprise to one side and a Japanese carrier (Chiyoda, for instance) to the other. Ultimately, it would have been better to zoom on the existing frame to reduce the stretched "fish eye" affect, even to suffer a lost percentage of the overall frame than to have the film ruined in its entirety. Admittedly, such a detailed and multi-series production is dictated by cost and such considerations or additions may have been too expensive.
Regardless, the time and effort to reduce the fish eye affect is a mute point considering that most of the stock footage used was worthless because of style usage. Almost all (if not all) of the film footage used - the most accurate (and best) record to reflect the actual combat record of USS Enterprise - was utterly obscured by what appears to be a rotating and hindering grid, or floating map of the world (hence 360?). Lord only knows what it was. This single bells and whistles affect was the predominant view throughout the entire series. As near as I can determine this was done for the sake of superfluous eye candy only. In addition, it appears much of the actual film stock - unbelievably - was intentionally altered with scratches and "wear lines" to provide a rustic or worn appearance. (This may have been due to the distractions from the floating map in the background, though I'm not certain.) Nonetheless, as a historian I feel such techniques that deliberately alter the actual film record borders on sacrilege. And it is becoming more and more Standard Operating Procedure with THC.
Moreover, the visual story of the Big E in Battle360 is loosely based upon substandard computer graphics (now standard for THC) in-lieu of actual film footage; a MAJOR disappointment when one considers actual film footage is sometimes available for specific events. Poor, substandard and historically inaccurate computer graphics is not history. A genuine film record of a bomb striking and detonating on the flight deck of Enterprise during The Battle of the Eastern Solomons is. Indeed, THC coverage of this important event - the first time Big-E sustained bomb damage and huge losses of her crew - is all on film and available. With the exception of one or two quarter second film clips it was never used. And the enemy bomb detonating near the island and the number 2 elevator - one of the most famous photographs and movie footage of the carrier war - was never used. Not once.
Perhaps worst of all is the production's high degree of music video imagery, - i.e. fast action computer graphics coupled with altered stock footage, spliced together as millisecond film clips that leaves the viewer disconnected from the action, disoriented from the subject, and distracted from the storyline. While techniques such as this is perhaps accepted as the norm by the younger generation, it is nauseating and overwhelming to the synapses of too many viewers, those who have lived and breathed THC since its conception. Neither the eye nor the ear could breathe. Such techniques make me want to reach for the Dramamine three minutes into the first segment. At times it was utter pandemonium. Indeed, it was the media equivalent of trying to take a drink from a fire hose. (Coincidently, this is the biggest complaint I've heard about the series as a whole from all quarters and age groups, which includes Enterprise veterans . . . and second only to THC's SOP repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, and monotonous post commercial break summaries. For THC's information, as viewers we know what happened in the previous segment because we've been watching the program.) Furthermore, much of the sound and music was so intense as to swallow whole the voice over narrative.
Ultimately, I believe all these techniques were done for dramatic affect. What they do, however, is provide a measurement of THC's current lack of focus on true military history and their apparent obsession with video technique. THC needs to understand that the actual true history of the Pacific War, and Enterprise in particular, when told in a straightforward manner is dramatic enough. Indeed, how we long for the days of spectacular, historically accurate and cutting edge documentaries such as Thames Television's/producer Jeremy Isaac's production of the multi-part series World At War. These professionals, true students of history, knew that World War II combat was a spectacular event without the need of these rapid fire, visual eye candy, and noisy enhancements.
The interviews with Enterprise veterans, though, were nicely done. Any story told by these brave veterans is an addition for the historical record. Yet many of these poor souls were limited to single and mostly insignificant sound bites owing to the producer's evident focus on useless computer graphics more than actual eyewitness accounts. (Or at minimum the interviews were botched.) And while Parshall, Martin K. Morgan and other historians were informative and accurate (especially Morgan), others come up way short. I say this with all due respect . . . but instead of modern Marine or Navy aviators explaining the attributes of the dive characteristics of a Zero fighter or SBD Dauntless dive bomber, World War II carrier operations, flight operations, combat history, or campaigns other Enterprise or Pacific War scholars of the caliber of Richard Franks, Eric Hammel and Barrett Tillman should have been used. Ultimately, the best choice to explain the dive-bombing techniques of a SBD bomber was the men flying the aircraft. And quite a few from the Enterprise Air Groups are still available.
Lastly, the overall script was occasionally inaccurate, amateurish, and peppered with weak and flowery adjectives. At times it was just downright embarrassing. The narrative would never have passed THC muster ten years ago. Moreover, I doubt seriously that an actual military/carrier/Pacific/WWII historian wrote the narrative.
What we saw in Battle360 was not history but a vast experiment in video and CGI imagery. And it didn't work. I feel for the veterans of Enterprise and the thousands of our old heroes from the Pacific who had long waited for this series. To them they are owed our best. And Enterprise/Battle360 definitely ain't it. This series should set the standard on how future documentaries should not be done.
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Edited by 1ssf at 06/14/2008 5:16 AM
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