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Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 2:55 PM
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I was appalled that during the scene when the narrator mentioned that Neanderthals and Modern Men met for the first time, it was to show the act of murder. In fact, right when the Modern Men were spearing the Neanderthal repeatedly, the narrator said the words "Modern Man", as if to connect the act of murder with Modern Man. It was the first instance of your series depicting murder between hominids. Look at the faces of the Modern Men while they were killing the Neanderthal. Their faces showed a vengeful expression. Was that intentional?
How can we be certain that the Neanderthals were killed off intentionally by Modern Man anyway?
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(2 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 3:12 PM
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Hi aalter, like you I had something to say of that scene as well. I first said it on the thread 'Little Mistake' so I'll just copy and paste what I said about it below.
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3.- The encounter with the Neanderthals and the subsequent elimination of them is depicted as exclusively a matter of competition for territory, hunting rights. I find this hard to believe, food was scarce and food is food. Some people (whites exclusively I believe that so far it has only been encountered in those that are descendants of Haplotype R-most Europeans-) have a genetic modification that helps them survive an HIV infection, they can become carriers of the virus but not get infected by it. This was pinpointed as an adaptation due to an adaptation to survive the effects of cannibalism, if our ancestors would in a pinch eat each other or their dead why would they not eat other further apart humans like the Neanderthals? I think it is a fallacy to believe that would not have happened, considering the extreme situation. Also it serves as a better explanation as to why the Neanderthals went extinct so quickly, just like the wholly mammoth in the America's when Homo Sapiens arrived they disappeared in a matter of a couple thousand years, we ate them all. I believe it is more than likely that we ate the Neanderthals as well.
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(3 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 4:05 PM
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> I was appalled that during the scene when the
> narrator mentioned that Neanderthals and Modern Men
> met for the first time, it was to show the act of
> murder. In fact, right when the Modern Men were
> spearing the Neanderthal repeatedly, the narrator
> said the words "Modern Man", as if to connect the act
> of murder with Modern Man. It was the first instance
> of your series depicting murder between hominids.
> Look at the faces of the Modern Men while they were
> e killing the Neanderthal. Their faces showed a
> vengeful expression. Was that intentional?
>
> How can we be certain that the Neanderthals were
> killed off intentionally by Modern Man anyway?
Yes it is funny but if you believe in evilution you have to believe that man has destroyed the earth killed off all of the extinct species that have come since he evolved from an ape and believe that burning fossil fuels is destroying the earth oh ........... and yes something that has nothing do with there so called science but is an absolute must believe in the right for a woman to have an abortion as baby killing has been with us since the time of baal. Maybe baal would be a good God for the atheist lol ha ha .
Dion
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 4:26 PM
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> and yes something that has nothing do with there so
> called science but is an absolute must believe in the
> right for a woman to have an abortion
>
Got to thinking about this part they do have a science to killing babies in college though they would have to in order to call it science and to legally perform the procedure huh? They like to say that they didn't know anyone in college as a doc or scientist that didn't believe evilution to be a fact. Of course they thought they were going to win the last election in a landslide because they didn't know anybody that supported George Bush either. They use this arguement to make us look like back water hicks holding on to superstitions. We are bring more docs and scientist over to our side all the time I am hopeing sometime we will out number them there too then what will their arguement be i wonder?
Dion
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:11 PM
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What I noticed was that everything in the program was very historical and scientific until that last segment where Modern Man was killing the Neanderthal. Then it looked like the producers had an agenda.
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164
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(6 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:18 PM
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http://www.creationeducation.org/presentation/humanevolution_not2.pdf
Did someone say AGENDA?
Yes, modern man, the modern capitolistic American non- Euopean Man. The one who "polutes" the planet and starts "unjust" wars and "forces" their way of life onto others.
OK, I'm reading too much into this or are these people that easy to predict. We've been exposed to their peopaganda for a long time. Easy to see the agenda. No?
Easter
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:25 PM
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Did you see how peaceful all of the other hominids were portrayed and how warlike Homo Sapiens was portrayed? Only after they gang-butchered the Neanderthal did you see the tender artistic side or Homo Sapiens with the cave paintings.
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:38 PM
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Yes they fought over a pig kinda like an esops fable huh.
Dion
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(9 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:52 PM
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It is hard to imagine that Neandertals were not negatively impacted by the arrival of moderns. (1) They lived in a marginal environment requiring low population levels for survival. Moderns arrived in larger numbers, threatening everyone's survival. (2) Neandertals had been separated from their distant hominid cousins for hundreds of thousands of years; they likely had little resistance to some modern human diseases. (3) Neandertals couldn't compete in the arms race; moderns made innovative tools, likely indicative of quicker brains. (4) Neandertals had become accustomed to the same environment over hundreds of generations and were slow to change. Moderns were innovators and immigrants. Their gift was adapting to new conditions in novel ways.(5) Neandertals ultimately disappeared from the archaeological record.
While it is unlikely every encounter was hostile, only a few such encounters, in tandem with disease and population stress, literally pushed Neandertals to extinction and into the sea as well. The latest Neandertal remains I am aware of are on the west coast of Portugal.
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 7:52 PM
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Do we know how Neanderthal died out? Since the DNA is totally different, it would be doubtful that they "merged" themselves into Homo Sapiens. It could be possible that they were starved out of existence instead of murdered.
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 8:00 PM
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> It is hard to imagine that Neandertals were not
> negatively impacted by the arrival of moderns. (1)
> They lived in a marginal environment requiring low
> population levels for survival. Moderns arrived in
> larger numbers, threatening everyone's survival. (2)
> Neandertals had been separated from their distant
> hominid cousins for hundreds of thousands of years;
> they likely had little resistance to some modern
> human diseases. (3) Neandertals couldn't compete in
> the arms race; moderns made innovative tools, likely
> indicative of quicker brains. (4) Neandertals had
> become accustomed to the same environment over
> hundreds of generations and were slow to change.
> Moderns were innovators and immigrants. Their gift
> was adapting to new conditions in novel ways.(5)
> Neandertals ultimately disappeared from the
> archaeological record.
>
> While it is unlikely every encounter was hostile,
> only a few such encounters, in tandem with disease
> and population stress, literally pushed Neandertals
> to extinction and into the sea as well. The latest
> Neandertal remains I am aware of are on the west
> coast of Portugal.
This is exactly why we call evilution a religion because you have no proof that we killed them all off any more then a disease could have killed them all off or what i think happened the flood killed them all off your arguement has no more proof then mine so why does yours get taught in schools and not mine it is not fair you have to admit this if you don't you probably just hate all other religions but your own and thats ok because we all believe are religion is the only one we just don't get the chance to force are religion and only are religion to our kids.
Dion
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 8:03 PM
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> Do we know how Neanderthal died out? Since the DNA
> is totally different, it would be doubtful that they
> "merged" themselves into Homo Sapiens. It could be
> possible that they were starved out of existence
> instead of murdered.
Yes this guess is just as good as any its not reproducable so it doesn't meet the standard science sets for our religions yet they except this religion.
Dion
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(13 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 8:06 PM
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That's like claiming that because the precise history of a roman fort in southern britain is not known, therefore the whole field of roman history is nothing more than an unproven guess, and we should teach the alternative theory that the romans came to earth in spaceships.
Noone can prove the roman empire afterall. Noone can reproduce it! All those stones and broken jars - fragmentary evidence! Its just a "theory". Noone was there. Noone can reproduce the roman empire in a lab. etc etc all the usual "arguments"..
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Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 8:59 PM
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No thats history we are talking about this is science it has standards it sets for it self to be science and they broke the first rule therefore you could say that your theroy is a possible history of mankind i have no problem with this i don't beliele it anymore than i believe hitler didn't gas the jews. This is stated as scientific fact which goes way past just history and reaches into the things we consider the closet to mathematical truth which is the only absolute truth we know of on the planet.
Dion
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(15 of 22)
Re: Modern man murdering Neanderthal
Aug 10, 2005 9:14 PM
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Archaeology is a historical science like paleontology. The historical part of evolution is a historical science. The scientific methods are the same.
Any criticism you level at the historical science part of evolution can equally be leveled at all of archaeology in general. Here is the process of a historical science:
1. Observations are made (ancient structures, fragments of pots, weapons, etc)
2. A hypothesis is devised to explain the observations
3. The hypothesis is tested against future observations (future finds)
4. The strength of the hypothesis is based on how well it deals under testing
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