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British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 15, 2006 1:11 PM
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Just announced that the British government have granted pardons posthumously to those Tommies shot as deserters in World War One such as Harry Farr whose family descendants hailed the news pointing out that all the evidence suggested that Harry was suffering from shell shock.
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 15, 2006 1:53 PM
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About time. Many of these unfortunate men were so stunned from the tremendous and constant shelling that occurred back then. Even doctors reported that some of these poor guys were so knocked about they could hardly speak. Many of the medical types and others nearby were not asked to speak on the victims behalf - most unfair. I think the British high command wanted examples and got them. In fact, many of these guys had outstanding military records and several had been decorated and/or wounded early in the war. The trails were a shame and over quickly and punishment carried out post haste.
A sad tale for some very unfortunate men caught in a brutal conflict.
Glad to read your post, Toom
Iromike
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 16, 2006 6:02 AM
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Much to the credit of the Australian government, they did not allow the British High Command to execute Australian soldiers, if only the Canadian government had shown that much independance. In 2001 the Canadian government formally pardoned the 23 Canadian soldiers executed by the BHC.
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 16, 2006 7:49 AM
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I saw a movie a few years ago dealing with British soldiers of the Great War who suffered from shell shock.
One psychiatrist used electric shock to 'heal' his patients.
I can't think of the name of it but if anyone can it's a good movie and I highly recommend it.
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Re: To Jlf - That would be 'Behind the Lines'
Aug 16, 2006 8:20 AM
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Hiya jlf,
'Behind the Lines' (1998) - not a good title.
Starring: Jonathan Pryce
Amazon.com
This extraordinary World War I film concerns themes of heroism, sacrifice, duty, and self-knowledge as profound as any in Saving Private Ryan. The story, taken from Pat Barker's 1991 novel Regeneration and based on true events, is set in a British Army hospital in Craiglockart, Scotland, in 1917. There, a pioneering psychiatrist named Dr. William Rivers (Jonathan Pryce) works with shell-shocked soldiers in a gentle, humane manner that contrasts sharply with the brutality of his colleagues. (The film's most horrifying scene features a mute patient being forced to speak by means of electric shock.)
Ironmike
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''Mike/JLF
Aug 16, 2006 2:52 PM
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iN a BBC radio discussion today it was stated that Germany only executed 26 soldiers in W.W. One for Courts-Martial offences between 1914-18-Grat Britain 306!-and they used to talk about the @''Beastly Hun???.
tHe Jonathan pryce movie about Dr Rivers was set in Edinburgh at Craiglockhart War Hospital-I attended Craiglockhart Grade School!-just one and one half miles down the road!!
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 17, 2006 5:50 AM
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I'm a little doubtful about the merrit of such a widespread pardon. Whilst many men undoubtably did not deserve to be executed and were suffering from shell shock or other conditions, there must have been many in that 306 who simply deserted out of sheer cowardice and selfishness, without any care for their consequently undermanned former comrades and with no real medical excuse. There has been little to none examination of many of these old cases and thus how do we know that all these men were innocent.
The argument put forward by the government is that there is insufficient documentation and records of the crimes and trials and so they cannot re-open and reinvestigate the cases - and thus they are obliged to pardon all. But surely by this logic most of the executed throughout history should be pardoned as we rarely possess sufficient documentation to assure their guilt today and by today's standards.
Aside from all this i doubt the actual dead care particularly whether they are pardoned or not. Whilst i understand it must be difficult for their remaining family, and some of them at least did not deserve to be shot, theres something about an out and out blanket pardoning of all the executed that i find uncomfortable.
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"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history." - Shaw
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 18, 2006 10:11 PM
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3 million plus in the british army, 300+ shot, they were not all innocent and not all had shell shock, some were unjustly executed but some no doubt were shot for the proper reasons. below are some.
1. casting arms away
2. refusing to go over the top
3. sleeping on duty
4. desertion
5. murder
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters'' Yet
Aug 20, 2006 9:58 AM
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The Germans-who were supposed to be the bad guys- didn't execute but 15 of their soldiers for similar offences-compard to the 300 of of the British?
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 21, 2006 7:16 AM
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> I'm a little doubtful about the merrit of such a
> widespread pardon. Whilst many men undoubtably did
> not deserve to be executed and were suffering from
> shell shock or other conditions, there must have been
> many in that 306 who simply deserted out of sheer
> cowardice and selfishness, without any care for their
> consequently undermanned former comrades and with no
> real medical excuse.
That was the line taken by former Secretary of State for Defence, Geoff Hoon. Hoon claimed that an independent investigation of all 306 cases was required before any pardons could be granted.
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Edited by Tallaksen at 08/21/2006 7:17 AM
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Edited by Tallaksen at 08/21/2006 7:18 AM
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Re: British Government pardons World War One ''Deserters''
Aug 21, 2006 8:08 AM
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"The Germans-who were supposed to be the bad guys- didn't execute but 15 of their soldiers for similar offences-compard to the 300 of of the British?"
I struggle to see how the stringency or laxity with which capitol punishment was enforced with regard to the disciplining of each sides own soldiers has any correlation with 'war guilt'.
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"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history." - Shaw
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