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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(1 of 30)
Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 12, 2007 6:15 AM
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In some quarters of the UK The British Empire is still being thought of as a wonderful accomplishment and something positive that happened to the world. Was not the British Empire the biggest crime against humanity in the history of the world? Worse than The Third Reich. Worse than Stalin. Worse than Pol Pot. Worse than all three combined? The Germans have and continue to teach their kids about the crimes their country committed in the 20th Century. I respect them for that. The Japanese are for the most part in denial to their kids. Why is what the British did in the name of Empire to the poor of the third world not taught in British schools? Your comments please.
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Posts:
89
From:
Manchester, UK
Registered:
11/13/07
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(2 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 12, 2007 6:23 AM
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> Your comments please.
I'm glad my comments please. It's why i post i suppose.
> Was not the British Empire the biggest crime against
> humanity in the history of the world?
No
> Worse than The
> Third Reich. Worse than Stalin. Worse than Pol Pot.
> Worse than all three combined?
No. A basic metric would be death toll, but seeing as you haven't bothered to compile any statistics i won't. Even where there are superficial similarities, such as famine in the USSR and India, there are qualititive differences. Ie famine was used as a weapon in the USSR, in India it was caused by extreme weather and planning failures.
--
Wikipedia: Not worth the paper it isn't written on
--
Edited by Rankenian at 12/12/2007 6:27 AM
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(3 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 12, 2007 10:39 AM
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> > Your comments please.
>
> I'm glad my comments please. It's why i post i
> suppose.
>
> > Was not the British Empire the biggest crime
> against
> > humanity in the history of the world?
>
> No
>
> > Worse than The
> > Third Reich. Worse than Stalin. Worse than Pol
> Pot.
> > Worse than all three combined?
>
> No. A basic metric would be death toll, but seeing
> as you haven't bothered to compile any statistics i
> won't. Even where there are superficial
> similarities, such as famine in the USSR and India,
> there are qualititive differences. Ie famine was
> used as a weapon in the USSR, in India it was caused
> by extreme weather and planning failures.
>
> --
> Wikipedia: Not worth the paper it isn't written on
>
> --
> Edited by Rankenian at 12/12/2007 6:27 AM
.....................................
You have been murdering the Irish for the last 600 years. Compute that for starters.
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Posts:
89
From:
Manchester, UK
Registered:
11/13/07
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(4 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 12, 2007 11:05 AM
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> You have been murdering the Irish for the last 600
> years. Compute that for starters.
Try reading more carefully, i said "seeing as you haven't bothered to compile any statistics i won't". If you want to make ridiculous suggestions like the British empire could have been worse than Hitler and Stalin combined then don't expect me to do your homework for you simply because you are incapable.
Perhaps the US Empire is "the biggest crime against humanity in the history of the world". After promising the people of the Philippines independance from the Spanish, changing their mind and then slaughtering 200,000 of them.
Compute that.
--
Wikipedia: Not worth the paper it isn't written on
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Posts:
1,553
Registered:
10/5/05
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(5 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 12, 2007 11:38 AM
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The British Empire is NOT worse the Hilter/Pol Pot etc. In the course of conquering and holding the British certainly some terrible things happened, but to compare that with the actions of Hilter/Stalin/Pol Pot, is to trivialise the crimes of these people.
Based on my experience (within the context of terrible history education, which is true on both sides of the Alantic) the British DO teach and accept these crimes. We can cope with the idea that we have done amazing things (e.g. - abolishing slave trade, standing alone against Hitler) and some really terrible things (e.g. - supressing Indian mutiny, setting up concentration camps in South Africa).
Its Americans in my experience that can't deal with this fact, and that the moment you point out they've done some bad things in their history as well as good things, they start screaming "why do you hate America ?".
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Posts:
57
From:
UK
Registered:
12/8/07
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(6 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 13, 2007 9:13 AM
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I reckon the American Empire has already clocked up more evil and general murder than the British even approached (and they were pretty dreadful), though they of often hide it by paying others to do the actual murders, as in Palestine. It might be worth checking over the numbers killed by the Romans in, say, Caesar's conquest of Gaul. Statistics do matter here, don't they? - not that I'm quoting any.
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Posts:
4
From:
Pittsburgh, PA
Registered:
12/13/07
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(7 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 13, 2007 10:22 AM
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I tthink a more fair statement might be, "The crimes of the British Empire are among the worst ever committed. Uncles Joe and Adolf were worse, so thet brings trhe Brits into third place.
We certainly did commit some terribble crimes against our Native American population. My grandfather was in the army during the Phillipine Insurrection. The stories he told of acts of the US Army there were awful to hear
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(8 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 13, 2007 3:34 PM
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> The British Empire is NOT worse the Hilter/Pol Pot
> etc. In the course of conquering and holding the
> British certainly some terrible things happened, but
> to compare that with the actions of Hilter/Stalin/Pol
> Pot, is to trivialise the crimes of these people.
.........................................
There is NOTHING trivial about the crimes of any country. Including my own. Do you have ANY idea at all what the British did to the worlds poor in the name of Empire? And why is it not taught in what passes for their education system. I can understand why not in their non fee paying schools. Half of those kids appear to be feral or being babysat for the parents. In their private fee paying schools they are well educated but still their past crimes are kept hidden. The Germans have told everything to their kids. Why can't the British? The British Empire is alluded to with head nodding pride as if it were some sort of achievement to be proud of.
...........................................
>
> Based on my experience (within the context of
> terrible history education, which is true on both
> sides of the Alantic) the British DO teach and accept
> these crimes. We can cope with the idea that we have
> done amazing things (e.g. - abolishing slave trade,
> standing alone against Hitler) and some really
> terrible things (e.g. - supressing Indian mutiny,
> setting up concentration camps in South Africa).
.........................................
They did no such thing as stand alone against Hitler. They had the entire Empire at their backs. To include Free French, Free Poles, ECT. They speak about abolishing the slave trade as if they had nothing to do with it in the first place. Slavery continued in the Empire for another 30 years after they so called abolished it. It was the British that for decades imported African slaves to their Caribbean plantations where they had a life expectancy 0f 6 years. They worked Millions of Africans to death. You mention British Concentration Camps in South Africa. How about British Concentration camps in Kenya as recently as the 1950's where thousands of Kenyans were starved, tortured, beaten to death, and systematically executed.
.....................................
>
> Its Americans in my experience that can't deal with
> this fact, and that the moment you point out they've
> done some bad things in their history as well as good
> things, they start screaming "why do you hate America
> ?".
........................................
You could not be more wrong. Americans are taught all about what we did to our black people, and what we did to the American natives. We have the most open society in the world. When I think of what America has done for the world you're darn right we wonder why we are hated. And hated we are. We have never build Empires. Since we became a country the only land we ever wanted was to bury our war dead. Dead usually as a result of fighting for another country's freedom. That is however changing fast. There are more and more Americans like me who can care less about being liked. I have been in the fortunate position of being the rich relative in life. It doesn't matter about the help you give. You become resented for it. It is the same with nations.
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(9 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 13, 2007 3:49 PM
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> I reckon the American Empire has already clocked up
> more evil and general murder than the British even
> approached (and they were pretty dreadful), though
> they of often hide it by paying others to do the
> actual murders, as in Palestine. It might be worth
> checking over the numbers killed by the Romans in,
> say, Caesar's conquest of Gaul. Statistics do
> matter here, don't they? - not that I'm quoting any.
.............................................
Palestine? Oh you of course mean Israel. That is the place where the British army turned HOLOCAUST survivors away and placed them behind barbed wire again in Cyprus as their prisoners. Is there any place in the world where we Americans and others are still not cleaning up and paying in blood and treasure for British greed? Everyplace you Brits have been you left devastation, looted countries, and murder of the inhabitants behind you unless you were kicked out first. Your Empire was dismantled because we made you. That and pure jealousy is why you people have not a decent word for us. That’s ok. We know where our friends are and it’s not in your bleak miserable pinko island.
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(10 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 13, 2007 3:58 PM
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> I tthink a more fair statement might be, "The crimes
> of the British Empire are among the worst ever
> committed. Uncles Joe and Adolf were worse, so thet
> brings trhe Brits into third place.
>
> We certainly did commit some terribble crimes against
> our Native American population. My grandfather was
> in the army during the Phillipine Insurrection. The
> stories he told of acts of the US Army there were
> awful to hear
........................................
Hi Brum. You think they are so placed because of the snow job they have been living with for the last 60 years. Remember this is the folk that have been selling Dunkirk as a victory for the last 65 years. The sad fact is even most of them have no idea about their own country’s criminal history. We treated our Natives awful. No doubt about that at all, but it's not swept under the rug. What we did not do was EXTERMINATE the entire population of Tasmanian natives, but that is another thread.
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Posts:
57
From:
UK
Registered:
12/8/07
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(11 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 14, 2007 5:36 AM
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Well Buckskins - 'Israel' was a place we used to read about in Sunday school, as I recollect. Since Palestine was, after the War, already full of people who objected to being colonised, it would have been decent if the Allies had agreed to take the survivors of the Nazi murders in themselves, but they didn't, did they? In that case, the Power holding the Mandate was not allowed to let the native inhabitants be driven out of their own country, as was afterwards to happen. Has it ever struck you, Buckskins, that you are just a wee bit unbalanced? Out of hatred of the various peoples you call 'Brits' you are now defending the only neo-Nazi 'state' on earth, with all its murders, ethnic cleansing, torture, collective punishments and regular child-killing. That is a gangster colony financed by the US, as you know, and controls the actions of US elected representatives through the McCarthyite organisation called AIPAC, as you also know. And unlike you, sonny, I actually opposed the Empire when and where it mattered and took a little courage, as foreign ranting does not. Well, I suppose it is too expensive for you to get medical help over there, but perhaps Cuba will send someone to a slum near you. If so, grab the opportunity!
--
Edited by Rhys at 12/14/2007 5:37 AM
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(12 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 14, 2007 7:14 AM
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As early as 1804 the British began to slaughter, kidnap and enslave the Black people of Tasmania. The colonial government itself was not even inclined to consider the aboriginal Tasmanians as full human beings, and scholars began to discuss civilization as a unilinear process with White people at the top and Black people at the bottom. To the Europeans of Tasmania the Blacks were an entity fit only to be exploited in the most sadistic of manners--a sadism that staggers the imagination and violates all human morality. As UCLA professor, Jared Diamond, recorded:
"Tactics for hunting down Tasmanians included riding out on horseback to shoot them, setting out steel traps to catch them, and putting out poison flour where they might find and eat it. Sheperds cut off the penis and testicles of aboriginal men, to watch the men run a few yards before dying. At a hill christened Mount Victory, settlers slaughtered 30 Tasmanians and threw their bodies over a cliff. One party of police killed 70 Tasmanians and dashed out the children's brains.
"
James Morris: The Final Solution Down Under.
The natives of Tasmania were systematicly exterminated.
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Posts:
1,292
Registered:
7/20/05
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(13 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 14, 2007 7:38 AM
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> Do you have ANY idea at
> all what the British did to the worlds poor in the
> name of Empire?
Evidently not as few people here seem as enraged as you about it... so come on then enlighten us with these self-evident truths.
Please be so good as to include some references to back up your claims.
> And why is it not taught in what
> passes for their education system. I can understand
> why not in their non fee paying schools. Half of
> those kids appear to be feral or being babysat for
> the parents. In their private fee paying schools they
> are well educated but still their past crimes are
> kept hidden.
You claim to know a lot about what is and isn't taught in British schools - please could you let us know what actual experience you have of the British history curriculum and teaching in British schools?
> You could not be more wrong. Americans are taught all
> about what we did.... We have never
> build Empires.
Funny that... look at a map of the US in 1783 and then look at a map of the US in 2007 - can you spot the difference?
You may also want to consider what the Philippines, Cuba, Guam and Porto Rico all have in common?
> There are
> more and more Americans like me who can care less
> about being liked.
Aww sounds like someone needs a hug....
--
Had we lived I should have had a tale to tell of hardihood, endurance and courage, which would have stirred the heart of every Englishman.
These rough notes and our bodies must tell the tale.
Robert Falcon Scott 1912.
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Posts:
1,292
Registered:
7/20/05
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(14 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 14, 2007 7:58 AM
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> What we did not do was
> EXTERMINATE the entire population of Tasmanian
> natives, but that is another thread.
Re: British victories during WW ll. Do they have any?
Posted: Dec 12, 2007 1:08 PM (27 of 92)
Buckskins32:
"Anywhere Australians served they were first rate. Not only were they coast watchers they were damn fine infantry as were the Kiwis. The Australians were elite wherever they fought and served. God Bless them all."
I take it that blessing doesn't extend to the Austrailian settlement of Australia then?
--
Had we lived I should have had a tale to tell of hardihood, endurance and courage, which would have stirred the heart of every Englishman.
These rough notes and our bodies must tell the tale.
Robert Falcon Scott 1912.
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Posts:
144
From:
Tx
Registered:
4/25/07
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(15 of 30)
Re: Crimes of The British Empire.
Dec 14, 2007 11:04 AM
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> > Do you have ANY idea at
> > all what the British did to the worlds poor in the
> > name of Empire?
>
> Evidently not as few people here seem as enraged as
> you about it... so come on then enlighten us with
> these self-evident truths.
>
> Please be so good as to include some references to
> back up your claims.
>
> > And why is it not taught in what
> > passes for their education system. I can
> understand
> > why not in their non fee paying schools. Half of
> > those kids appear to be feral or being babysat for
> > the parents. In their private fee paying schools
> they
> > are well educated but still their past crimes are
> > kept hidden.
>
> You claim to know a lot about what is and isn't
> taught in British schools - please could you let us
> know what actual experience you have of the British
> history curriculum and teaching in British schools?
>
> > You could not be more wrong. Americans are taught
> all
> > about what we did.... We have never
> > build Empires.
>
> Funny that... look at a map of the US in 1783 and
> then look at a map of the US in 2007 - can you spot
> the difference?
>
> You may also want to consider what the Philippines,
> Cuba, Guam and Porto Rico all have in common?
>
> > There are
> > more and more Americans like me who can care less
> > about being liked.
>
> Aww sounds like someone needs a hug....
>
> --
> Had we lived I should have had a tale to tell of
> hardihood, endurance and courage, which would have
> stirred the heart of every Englishman.
>
> These rough notes and our bodies must tell the tale.
>
> Robert Falcon Scott 1912.
................................................
That's right dole scum, yer a clever lad.
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