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Posts:
1,309
Registered:
4/25/03
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(1 of 30)
Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Jul 24, 2003 6:09 AM
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It seems as if everyone is bashing Andrew Jackson these days. He had a very rough life and was even injured by Banastre Tarleton as a teenager during the American Revolution. Tarleton told him to clean the mud off his boots. When he refused, Tarleton swung at him with his sword. Jackson deflecting the blow with his hand was injured on the side of the head. It is noticable in some of the portraits of him.
He did have a prejudice against all indians. This I believe goes back to his relatives being killed or attacked by indians?
Any other reasons why people dislike him so much?
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Posts:
9,202
Registered:
10/27/01
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(2 of 30)
Because he was a dictator who defied his own
Jul 24, 2003 10:20 AM
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Supreme Court which ruled that he as president could not expel the southern Indians, who were mostly acculturated Christians by the 1830's, from their lands in the south to the Indian Territory.
Jackson told the court he had the mob and the army and would do what he pleased!
Jackson then ordered the expulsion of all Indians living east of the Mississippi in the south. This act of ethnic cleansing and genocide is called the Trail of Tears and resulted in the deaths by disease, exposure, starvation and gunshot wounds of 8-12,000 Indians out of a total population of perhaps 35,000-50,000!
His reasons were his own hatred of Indians, his desire to expand slavery into the black soil belt of land held by the Indians. This was a belt of rich soil in the south suitable for cotton plantations. There were also rumors of gold among the lands of the Cherokees which Jackson's political cronies were trying to obtain.
Jackson's motive for the expulsion of the southern tribes were greed not national security.
To be blunt Jackson was a mass murderer and dictator who was feared by nearly all but his closest supporters.
Jackson was also capable of judicial murder, on trumped up charges in the 1820's period he had British traders in Florida hanged because they were trading with Indians for deer and wild cow hides. Jackson accused them of spying for England and when that didn't work out he had them executed for gun running!
Jackson also believed in the one party system telling his aides "if there is a job in government, that cannot be done by a Democrat, abolish the job"!
Jackson was ridiculed in the press as Andrew I king of America!
So what you have in Jackson is a murderous, greedy, genocidal dictator who was a threat to the democracy and rule of law in this nation and held himself above the Constitution of this nation.
I fail to see, other then his personal courage in battle, what was to like about this man!
It is odd however that the Democrats still see him as a party hero, having a dinner in his honor every year!
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Posts:
1,309
Registered:
4/25/03
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(3 of 30)
Re: Because he was a dictator who defied his own
Jul 24, 2003 12:00 PM
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Thanks for your post, I know very little on him. I have seen the "Trail of Tears" play by the Cherokee indian tribe in the Smokies.
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Posts:
257
Registered:
2/17/03
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(4 of 30)
Jul 24, 2003 2:46 PM
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Let's start with the negatives, there are more of those:
-disregard for checks and balances, he ignored a Supreme court decision in Worcestor v. Georgia, threatening the very ntotion of supreme court authority and balance of power.
-his Indian policy was a complete disgrace.
-the Spoils System and partison politics. he ended up screwing over a lot of guys who actually supported him during an age of increased suffrage.
-pro-slavery
Positives:
-he definitely was a patriot and his victory at New Orleans is legendary.
-he did keep the union together when the tariff issue arose and Calhoun and South Carolina first threatened secession.
I will also give him credit for being quite an interesting character. Good stories like the one you mention w/the British soldier, the many duels he fought, and his inaguration party.
"If you stop struggling, then you stop life" -Huey Newton
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Posts:
30
From:
Southport, North Carolina USA
Registered:
7/29/03
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(5 of 30)
Right or Wrong: Jackson Got the Job Done
Jul 29, 2003 2:50 PM
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Like the Civil War's Gen. Grant, who I admire as a general, but not as President: right,wrong,or otherwise; Gen. Jackson got the job done.
If Jackson had to violate international law and invade Spanish Florida to lynch a few people--JACKSON GOT THE LYNCHINGS DONE. But when economically prominent New Orleans militia socialites wrongly or rightfully, but legally thwarded Gen. Jackson; the "other people's rights buster"; became Mr. Legalism's Supreme.
In other words,like most of us, Jackson used the law practically,and pragmatically, when it suited him;and Jackson ABUSED THE LAW WHEN IT SUITED HIM. Some people go to law, better to obey it; others to, better evade it. I've done both, too.
Prime example: My kinsman, Capt.Piere Gabriel de Juzan, let 52 Choctaws in the swamp against the British right flank--my personal opinion is heroically. At New Orleans, Gen.Jackson gave a patriotic speech so moveing that white America was one with the Indian; that when I read it, I was moved and believed it; and believed Gen. Jackson did too--at that moment.
But the record bespeaks more loudly and eternally long lastingly, the real trueth of Jackson's false words; for the facts, Capt. de Juzan (conductor) and his people,after the War of 1812, were banished to near northern Texas.
This, America's, and Jackson's reward to Patriots, of the wrong skin color.
∞ Focusoninfinity
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Posts:
2,186
Registered:
11/15/00
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(6 of 30)
Re: Because he was a dictator who defied his own
Aug 10, 2003 11:30 PM
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Well put. I would have been a bit more brief. One word Beginning with A and ending with hole.
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Posts:
1,086
Registered:
12/28/01
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(7 of 30)
Re: Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Aug 11, 2003 7:33 AM
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Jackson had many admirable qualities--chief among them loyalty and patriotism. He was also a dynamic leader and a political genius (in most cases). On a personal level, he deserves credit and empathy for raising his sights above the disastrous effects of the American Revolution, which left him nearly penniless and killed his mother.
But the truth is that his attitude, and eventual policy, toward the Indians of the Southeast was something close to genocidal. He made it his life's work to fight them, broke the back of Indian power in the Southeast, and then implemented a policy to have them ethnically cleansed from territory in the Southeast to make way for white settlement.
A further problem with Jackson's character was his incredible temper and, in many cases, utter lack of judgement. As a younger man, he was capable of cold-blooded violence, including killing other men in duels. A common practice in those days was to fire in the air or aim to "wing" somebody, thus preserving everyone's honor but letting them go home to their families. Not Jackson. In duels, Jackson commonly aimed to maim or kill, and in fact did so.
Jackson could also play fast and loose with the truth. There is consistent evidence that he married Rachel Donelson roughly a year before she obtained her divorce--and moreover, may well have known she was not divorced. No big deal in the time and place where they lived. But when the evidence (or at least questions) came to light during a later presidential campaign, he allowed his campaign leaders to construct a plausible (if not airtight) cover story. Meanwhile, those same handlers were in the media purveying a story (about John Quincy Adams) that was an outright fabrication.
There has also been a dispute about Jackson's activities in Florida. James Monroe claimed, even on his death bed, that he never authorized Jackson to take over West Florida, arrest the Spanish governor, etc.--when Jackson did. Jackson claimed he had such authorization. This one is murky, to say the least, but it points to the fact that Jackson, when he personally decided to do something, would simply do it, and sort out any complications later.
Jackson was a headstrong, ambitious and dynamic leader. As president, he was incapable of crediting or even understanding viewpoints that did not completely agree with his own. As a result, he nearly singlehandedly defined the powers of the president as a strong executive--or better or worse in later centuries.
In other words, he's a complicated figure. In terms of our own mores and standards, many of us would find him dangerously impetuous and doctrinaire. But for the time and place, he may have been exactly what his country needed.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
9/29/04
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(8 of 30)
Re: Right or Wrong: Jackson Got the Job Done
Sep 29, 2004 2:29 PM
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He got too much credit for the battle of N.O., and was romanticized by the Anglo-Saxon historians and the efforts of the Latin people were omitted.
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Posts:
41
Registered:
9/14/04
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(9 of 30)
Henry Clay and Andrew Jackson rivalry !
Oct 1, 2004 7:48 PM
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Henry Clay and Andrew Jackson were bitter enemies. Clay challenged him to a duel , and Jackson backed out. Jackson was hated by many congressmen and presidents. It was customary for the people to vote for Generals as Presidents back then. Many of my family {women and children }were kidnapped by the Indians back then. The WAR HAWKS were formed to protect the country from these renegade indian tribes. Henry Clay was elected leader of the WAR HAWKS. These were the same Militia that fought the British in 1812. Jackson had a big ego and wanted no part of a democracy. Also , the first Republican party was formed by Henry Clay , the most powerful man in congress and the creator of " THE AMERICAN SYSTEM "
Jackson was very jealous of Clay's popularity , and bad mouthed him behind his back. Henry Clay upon hearing of these slanders challenged Jackson to "A Duel". Jackson was determined to extinct the Seminole Indians , and was using up to much energy and government money slaughtering Indian women and kids , and taking their reservations back thru raids on their given land. Clay layed down the LAW for him saying quote, " You harm one more Indian and we sir will duel "!
Henry Clay the 5th
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Posts:
361
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5/5/04
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(10 of 30)
Re: Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Oct 18, 2004 7:26 PM
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Andy Jackson was everything in the all the post below. But the one thing he did no other President could claim before or since him......I mean no president. He paid off the National Debt in 1835. The only time in history our nation was financially solvent. He left only $5000 in the kitty, but we didn't owe anybody. This plus his 1932 veto of the 2nd National Bank's charter renewal gave the American people back the power. But I digress
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Posts:
6
Registered:
10/28/04
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(11 of 30)
Re: Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Oct 29, 2004 9:59 AM
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Yeah he does get bashed but for a good reason. So what if is parents got killed by Native Americans, is that any excuse to send them to the poor, uninhabitable land that we did? If they made it, they could live there, how kind of Mr. Jackson to make them march there while Americans constantly attacked them and killed them. That is why President Jackson gets so much grief, because he could be one the worst presidents ever. Or even one of the worst people ever.
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Posts:
6
Registered:
10/28/04
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(12 of 30)
Re: Because he was a dictator who defied his own
Oct 29, 2004 10:02 AM
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I think that is very well put. The man was a fool and a king. He got his officials to do the dirty work for him and get the Native American land from them.
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Posts:
361
Registered:
5/5/04
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(13 of 30)
Re: Henry Clay and Andrew Jackson rivalry !
Oct 29, 2004 11:14 AM
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With all due respect to Henry Clay who does have a position in American History, and it is not the biased story being told here. The WAR HAWKS were named because like the noble bird they were constantly hovering and circling around their prey before attacking, whatever or whoever that may be, Hence the name "War Hawks." This group of men of similar opinion joined together and then received the name from there actions, not because they said hey let's call ourselves the War Hawks and do this.
And THE AMERICAN SYSTEM we live under is Hamilton's and Hamilton's alone today.
In regard to the duel, I seriously doubt that ever occurring or it would have been public news cause it would have happened. Andy Jackson did not get his nickname "old hickory" because he was afraid to voice or back his opinion. And it was Jackson who laid down the law in 1832 when against the Clay run Congress he pulled the Second National Banks Charter and in 1835 again against the Clay run Congress he kicked out the foreign owned Second National Bank out of this country and PAID OFF all of the US National Debt the War Hawks had occurred in since 1775. Now that sounds like someone who was in total control of the Political situation in the USA during his term, seems he was the Boss to me. And besides Mr. Peabody never would have never let Clay get a shot off in a duel anyway, that's the kind of loyalty he had for Mr. Jackson and proved it on many occasions. But that's just my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
11/7/04
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(14 of 30)
Re: Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Nov 7, 2004 8:55 AM
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It would be obvious to any
one in these lives and times that Andrew Jackson was both a bigot and a racicist, conditions which were much more acceptable during his life and times. However do not overlook Jackson's interest and relationships with land spectulation companies and expansive States rights phylosyphies,especially with regards to Tenn. and North Car.
It always has been about the money and always will be.
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Posts:
5
Registered:
12/13/04
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(15 of 30)
Re: Why does Andrew Jackson take such a beating
Dec 13, 2004 1:38 PM
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Jackson did some bad things to the Indians yes, but he was a true patriot. He saved the country from a central bank and fiat money, which was his biggest accomplishment. Also, he held the British back from their meddling in american politics.
It's sad that later presidents sucummed to the International Monetary elites and Central Bank(Federal Reserve). That's why the supporters of the central bank put Jackson's face on the 20 dollar bill, as a cruel joke.
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